Proofing the off leash - Page 3

Really nice work. The dog looks great, but I would like to comment on your handling skills, specifically how you move very quietly and smoothly with your dog, no wasted movement, nothing spastic or even slightly jerky, shoulders square, including throughout turns (nicely done, rounded correctly not weird and sharp or herkyjerky) changes of speed (very fair to the dog), and out of motion exercizes. People might think that's easy to do but it is not, takes a lot of practice and skill.  Lookie sue no where did you mention the incorrect posture of the dog in the sitz in or out of motion! My dog does the same thing and my trainers has drawn my attention to it! how come you did not catch that elementary point!  Squirm you worm! All positive comments! nothing wrong with that we all need positive reinforcement!  I see people like you at training all the time! yes you eat the members up to their face and stab em in the back when they are off field! Hey Kreiger you looked good but your sitz was a       l ittle off center!!!    Best thing you can do sue is let it rest!LOLLOLLOL      I wonder how slamdunc and lavk9 are feeling now after they are caught like a rat!

ray your imagination is a wild and wacky place. 

Another little factoid - you can't fix everything at once.  No dog is perfect in the beginning, if you insist on  perfection in everything in the beginning, it's too hard on most dogs and they will shut down.  As a matter of fact, I still  do not have an issue with the out of motion exercizes on this young dog, in fact his down out of motion is very nice and his sit out of motion ain't too shaby either.  Big news - the guy is getting ready for his BH not the WUSV.

Definition of "blowing smoke up his ass":  "Giving a gratuitous and insincere compliment, possibly to deceive"

Nope, guess I wasn't blowing smoke up his ass because when I complimented the OP, it was sincere and certainly not a lie.

 I will rethink my position if someone whom I respect, someone who has actually accomplished something in schutzhund echoes your sentiment.  I see your posts as nothing more than the insane and garbled  rantings of a very odd little man.  So we will have to agree to disagree. 

I attacked PHIL?  WHERE?  Where did Phil say I was wrong or say anything other than say he uses a different method that works for him?

Ray you really need to take a step back and examine your reasons for posting the way you do. Your motives have clouded  any reasoning ability you possess.  You have taken a thread about someone's video and tried your damndest to make it about something else.  I mean come on, you finally post on a thread about dog training and you still have nothing to say about dog training, nothing constructive to add about the topic, only about people you dislike. 

Okay I am going to try this once more very slowly.  These are fundamental concepts:

1.  Different trainers train differently, depending on what works for them and what works for the dog they are working with at that time.  I certainly didn't invent the method I use to train the recall, I was trained this method (among others) by someone way more accomplished than I.  I was also trained other methods but this is what works best for me and my dog right now.  Incidentally, on recalls my dog comes in fast and straight.  Speaking of the recall,  when I practice,  I never practice the finish with the recall with my current dog.  Some dogs you can but with this dog it's a bad idea.  Do you know why?  Do you know how I practice the flip finish if I don't combine it with the exercize except to proof it?  Same thing with the down after  the send out.  Do you know why?  With some dogs it's fine to always practice the down with the send out, but not with all dogs.  Do you know why?   

My trainer taught me there is more than one way to the top of the mountain.  Just because two people do things differently does not necessarily mean one is right and one is wrong.  Steve reaches down and touches his current pup when her sit is slightly crooked, with my current dog I use a method called "left step back".  Different dogs, different handlers, different stages in training,.  Neither is right or wrong, just different.

2.  Choosing to compliment someones work in a video means you chose to compliment what you saw, no one said he was perfect, no one said don't change a thing in what you are doing.  I think if anyone who complimented the OP had said "Man you and your dog are perfect in every way, don't change a thing" that could be considered blowing smoke up someone's ass, but that's just my opinion, again no right or wrong. 

Raymond, as usual, you turn a thread around and try to make it about you and your misplaced anger.  You really do have some issues.  If you're not taking medication, it's time you did.  Since everybody ignored the thread you started, you just couldn't stand it and had to come here to turn this one into a fight.  These threads are very informative for those of us who admit we have much learning to do.  So, if we can see what is wrong and have someone pointing out why and what to do to improve it, we may learn something.  What we don't need is you droning on an on with your agenda.  NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU THINK.  Every time you start a thread it has to go all the way across the screen with either exclamation points or question marks. People can read and your attention-grabbing attempts are really pathetic.  Go train your own dog, the one you admit you have no control over.  If you don't want to pay attention and learn, leave the rest of us alone.

Kreiger,
I like the dog and thought the video was your first time doing the routine of lead and was showing us that.  I still think it was very good for the first time off lead.  I agree with Phil, Sue and others who actually offered you advice.  Your dogs does "crab" a little, meaning his back end is wide when he heels.  This causes the crooked sit as well.  I suspect this comes from the reward coming from your right hand and right side causing the dog to wrap slightly anticipating the reward.  I would switch the reward to the left side of your body under your armpit.  I would also be wary of your posture, you do walk crooked leaning to your left side.  I would also experiment with the speed that you walk and stride length.  I think your dog may benefit from you walking slightly faster, this will keep his attention and keep him even more up beat.  

If we really want to be picky in a positive way.  I would work on the recall some more increasing the distance and speed.  I would throw the toy between my legs when the dog gets close so he races straight through you in the beginning.  I would stand "at ease" with my legs spread shoulders width apart and throw the toy while playing through my legs.  I would separately train the recall "standing at attention"  with the dog coming and sitting in front.  He will soon associate the difference in body language and posture.  Also, I would not adjust to the dog when he is crooked or not straight.  If he has a crooked sit, he needs to learn to correct it.  If he is crooked on the recall he needs to learn to fix it. Teach him to adjust to be correct.  

I would work all of the exercises separately and not put the routine together for a while.  Work on heeling, the sit out of motion, the down, the recall, the sit in front on the recall.  The automatic sit when you stop heeling, etc. I would break the routine down to the individual exercises, then break down the individual exercises and work on those components.  Your dog is ready for the BH, you will not have a problem.  Just some little things that we all need to work on.    

Hopefully, others will join in and offer some additional pointers.  That video was only a 1:40, so more videos would be really beneficial.  I generally do not like to draw to many conclusions form seeing one video.  Stopping the crabbing may be difficult, you may need to go back to heeling just 1 or 2 steps, initially and reward when the dog is correct and straight.  Then go from there increasing the number up to 15 steps and correcting, etc.  If possible you may also want to set up a mirror so you can see the dogs position and your body posture with out looking at the dog. 

Just some ideas, FWIW,

Jim

Can we all just ignore Raymond and hope he gets the help he needs.  Just ignore him and do not respond to him.  Another decent thread is about to go down in flames.

Jim

I see Mark Saccoccio doing the toss the ball between the legs thing, and man does it work well,  but I'm a chicken and a  klutz and pretty sure I would end up with a face plant as my dog came though  my legs.    I also do the ball under the left arm pit thing for a long time, and of course,  eventually you get to the point  where the dog  learns he must be correct regardless of where the ball is, but even then I go back to sometimes using the ball in left pit during training. 

Nothing ever stays the same for long, training is never really finished. new issues crop up, old ones come back, then things might go very smoothly for a while until the next thing pops up.  But that's OK, I think if training a dog was the kind of thing where you get to an end point then you're done forever it would be awful boring!

Can I ask a question? lol.  I'm not trying to criticize I'm genuinely curious....why did you wait until you put the whole pattern together to work off leash?  Is that common?  I ask b/c I am training my first Schutzhund dog and we have been working on and off leash since the beginning.  Usually when I am holding a leash it's because I need to actually practice how/where to hold it for the BH and FO since most of the training I do off leash or I might have a thin pull tab dangling from the collar but don't always hold/use it.

Sue, I was always scared to hold a toy between my legs but finally tried it a few weeks ago and it was a blast!  Now I alternate between a toy under my chin, throwing a toy through my legs, or a toy in my armpit (do the finish).