DDR dogs - Page 3

GAWD I wish we could!
I'm going to work. Can't count on my bitches to pay my bills. 

My take on this is that if someone wants to excel in Schutzhund they will go with West lines.  DDR breeders probably know this and so do not aim at super high drive dogs as their buyers would likely be overwhelmed, and that's already available through West lines.  What most of their buyers can handle is a balanced dog, with plenty of drive for club level or work, but with a temperament that helps it adapt naturally to a family life.  Each breeder has there own take on what they like and exactly what they want to produce.  It does appear, at least recently, that many DDR breeders want to produce pet qualities over working abilities.  Maybe because that's what the public likes, or just because that is what they like.  The DDR gene pool allows this as in a single litter you can find mellow, low drive pups and others that are over the top.... from there it is about the breeder keeping back what they like, type breeding and making their dogs more and more what they want.  I have 2 DDR dogs that have very high play/prey drives and need very little stimulation for it to kick in... so it's still around.

Jen,

I think your right. Just dogs. Maybe we could build one haha. They did in napolean dynomite.
We might have to work something out over the summer.  Im in 30 inches of snow with 10-20 more on the way tonight haha.
Act up. I would never do such a thing. As far as decoying- you provide food and booze and you got a decoy til i drop. haha. Would like to take a look at the dogs though one of these days. Would love to see how the "devil child" is doing.

Vom-

Il be pulling my next female from prager/jiri, haha. funny you mention that. They definitely have some nice dogs out there.  


Debisue-

WOW thats quite the opinion you have!

"Too bad we can't go back in time and meet some of these dogs that seem larger than life now. I bet we'd find out that they're ........................just dogs."

Amen to that!!!

The other part of this, and I have commented on this before, is that, like what you like and let others like what they like. The GSD is a really cool and versatile breed. I have owned nine of them in my life. They were/are all different and I have liked and enjoyed each and every one for what they were/are.

Amysue, I agree with the assessment on the West lines excelling at Schutzhund, but, this is a general statement. There are some extremely nice Czech/Slovak dogs out there at the top of the heap in Schutzhund. I also think that most people at the high levels of the sport of Schutzhund will not bother with a DDR GSD because they are slow to mature. These top-level handlers will not take the time to see if the dog will develop. Heck, they won't take the time to see if a West working line dog will develop either, so, nothing really new there. It does take a lot of patience on the owners part, and a helper that is willing to work that long with you. It's easy to get frustrated (owner or helper) when you aren't seeing progress, or the same rate of progress that others are making with their dog. If the owner and the helper are not 100% committed to get through the initial slow progress in Schutzhund, then the continued training of that dog is doomed (DDR or otherwise).
As for litters, most breeders are lucky enough to find 2 or 3 pups sold out of a litter that the owner says they are interested in Schutzhund and then, most likely, only one will follow through with the training.
I think that your assumption of DDR breeders producing pups that they are happy to go to pet homes isn't entirely correct, but, that certainly is where they get the most positive feedback from. DDR GSD's are usually excellent guardians of the home, and, quite frankly, who doesn't like that, especially when you don't have to train it in to the dog.

I would also like to note that I have begun to see some really nice breedings pairing West working lines with Czech lines. They look like really, really nice dogs. Maybe a new direction???

Yoshy, you confused my fragile female mind. Did DebiSue comment or did you mean amysue maybe? 

Which "devil child" do you mean?

amysue-
I apologize.


jenni-
little black girl we chatted about offline in the 'A" litter that you sold.

Ah, yes. Seems a few owners have called them something similar to that. Don't know why; they were all little angels when they left. <shrug>.  Anza is the one you refer to. I don't think she's killed anyone yet. So far, so good.
 
Sorry to get off topic...although that litter was a tad over half DDR, so I guess we're sort of techincally still on topic. ;-)

Haha. nice. we are always on topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some interesting theories here.

Amysue-

I am truely curious to where your opinions come from. DDR dogs are only good as pets? They arent bred for work? They are easier to handle than west lines?

I mean you really have to explain those statements.

OGBS-
Im curious to where your opinion of them these dogs being slow developers? As they were bred for early maturity for many years to improve their duration of duty.

Its funny I just had a discussion with the nation breed warden of Czech about this very topic and the genetic ties too "relative rate of maturity". Tracing it back all the way to "Haus Schutting". And discussing how they bred for this quality for many many years in zPS.Very interesting stuff! 


So im curious to how slow maturity could be placed as a stereotype of the DDR line. Can you expand on how you came to this conclusion?

Yoshy,
My opinion of slow rate of maturity (by this I mean mental maturity) is from watching these dogs in various scenarios, AKC obedience, Schutzhund, etc., as well as talking to many that I feel are more knowledgable and experienced than I in this country, and including friends from the former East Germany and Czechoslovakia. I think that it is wonderful that you had time to speak with Mr. Novotny. He is a wealth of knowledge and I would also love to speak with him some time, but, he is only one man. His opinions are only one perspective and he isn't here to defend what you gleaned from your conversation with him.
You seem to believe that the Czech lines, which he was a part of producing, are DDR/Czech, most do not anymore. It is widely believed today that the DDR dogs and the Czech dogs are more than different enough to make a clear distinction between the two. If from your conversation with Jiri, it leads you to believe they are the same, then so be it, but, welcome to 2010. And if he really believes that, please show me where he has done any breeding back to a modern DDR dog in the last 15 years or more. The only dogs you can call DDR/Czech, in my opinion,  would be from a litter where someone breeds a modern DDR dog to a Czech dog. Most of the modern day DDR dogs are not from military bloodlines, but, from breeders that did this as a hobby in East Germany. Some of these DDR dogs are about as well equipped to work as show lines are. Simply not a lot there. I am not saying they aren't nice dogs, or that they have bad temperaments, but, a lot of them are oversized, too heavy and too slow to do most real work or compete in sports. The Czech/Slovak lines are different, but, again I will say that they are much slower to develop mentally than West working lines. If you need proof feel free, when you visit Jen, to show up and train with my group some time. We will be able to show you glaring differences in the dogs.
I would also like a more detailed account of what Jiri believes "early maturity" is. Is this mental, physical, defense, prey, ability to train, or, all of the above? I do believe that a lot of the DDR dogs, and even a lot of the Czech dogs, develop physically early, but, not mentally. I will also agree that Czech/Slovak dogs, and probably the DDR dogs, develop defensively much sooner than the West dogs do, but, this can be a detriment in training because it is usually born out of some fear aggression that the dog is trying to work through as its brain develops. I can see how that would be a good trait, though, if your intent is to repress the citizens of your country and keep them from crossing the border. The dogs that I see out of Czech/Slovak lines that are developing mentally earlier than usual are a lot more like the West working lines and much more prey based sport dogs.
Just my observations!