American lines question - Page 3

I was told that Covy Tucker imported German Showlines to mix into their breeding program.  That was maybe ten years ago.

Just like VA1 Marko Cellarland lost out to the modern showlines, Caralon's Phantom, lost out to Covy Tucker's nightmanes.

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/137.html





www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/412367.html  lots of good looking dogs in this pediree


Funny thing, both of these dogs were in my first GSD's pedigree a few generations back.

Don't forget all the herding dogs used on working ranches that were descended from good working lines.

Michele

There's a reason why line breedings typically only go back 5 generations.  8 times in a 7 generation pedigree isn't necessarily unreasonable considering there are 254 possible slots and it's easy to see how any influential dog might apear many times given the nature of line breeding.

Oh, believe me when I say it's only the show fancy who WANT to see this in the breed!

The rest of us think they look like cripples!

I heard about a lady and her daughter who were watching some GSDs at the show. I can't remember if they were used to German lines, or whether they were Shiloh folk. Anway, after watching one of the classes, the daughter turned to her mom, and said, "I think it's really nice of them to have classes for the crippled dogs, but when do the regular ones come out?"

Out of the mouths of babes...

I got my first GSD in the early 80's. I grew up watching Rin Tin Tin and Roy Rogers and his GSD, Bullit. When my dog started to show her age, I started looking around for another, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing! What the HECK is going on here? That puppy's rear end is wobbling all over the place!    Needless to say, I decided I didn't want to buy it.

Luckily, the next GSD to wander into my life was also from old-fashioned lines, probably another BYB. Her rear end was so high, I had an American showlines breeder tell me he didn't think she was purebred, while a German breeder took a look at her and said, "She looks like the real old-fashioned dogs we used to breed in Germany before the war."  She lived to be 14 1/2.  (That's her in my sig picture.)

Here's one of the top males in Canada, Brown Hill Kysarah's Maricio, aka Eddie.


And here's one of the Kaleef dogs, Woodside's Pacino 

Here's a link to Jimmy Moses' kennel. Since Dallas came on the scene, the American dogs ARE showing more substance, though they stil trot on their hocks.
www.kaleefgsd.com/boys.htm

 Don't blame the American Shepherds on bloodlines, etc. Place the blame on intensive selective breeding for the exaggerated traits that the judges put up in the conformation winner's circle. Blame the breeders and the judges for not assiduously following the breed standard (for both conformation and working / trainability). The problem lies not in the dogs, but in breeding practices and ethics, and the lack of judging to the true breed standard. You could repeat the creation of the American Shepherd from any of the German/European bloodlines in a matter of a few tens of years (not that anyone in their right mind would do so...). All these traits that we so dislike are in the breed worldwide. It is just a matter of not selecting for these traits in breeding...

When and why did the Roach Back German GSD's appear?   I absolutely CANNOT STAND that look .... those dogs look deformed to me.

Sunsilver - I like the looks of the dog in the Top pix that you just posted.   The American Line dogs also appear to be larger than the German Lines ?? 

"I heard about a lady and her daughter who were watching some GSDs at the show. I can't remember if they were used to German lines, or whether they were Shiloh folk. Anyway, after watching one of the classes, the daughter turned to her mom, and said, "I think it's really nice of them to have classes for the crippled dogs, but when do the regular ones come out?"

LOL I heard a similar thing.I was at a AKC show with some German Show and Working lines just to show and promote them more and people were coming up to use cause they thought our dogs were beautiful.One lady asked "Why do those other ones look like the legs are broke"?  When we were in the show ring we had more people clapping for our dogs then the AKC ones.Needless to say the AKC people weren't happy but OH WELL!! Also the German Line ones won highest in the AKC obedience as well.Again they weren't too happy.

Maggie Mae- Lance doesn't look too bad considering what some look like now.

The roach back was introduced by the Martin brothers, who dominated the German SV show scene until very recently. Do a search for them on this site, if you want more info, or maybe one of the other posters can fill you in. Gotta go pick up my vehicle. The blower motor quit on me, and it's about -25 C out there right now!! 


I like Eddie very much too. I was sorta thinking of breeding my bitch to him, but unfortunately, she turned out mildly dysplastic when I had her OFA'd     His owners are one of the more ethical American-style breeders, and will not mate him with any bitches who have not passed OFA (not that I would have bred her. I had her spayed as soon as I found out.)

Not sure I agree about the size. The SV recently clamped down on oversized dogs, while I think the American and Canadian judges are more likely to ignore a dog's size when passing out the ribbons??

There is no true "roached" back in German bloodlines according to Willis; it's more a product of how the dogs are stacked than an indication of an actual curvature in the spine.