Is this a normal puppy guarantee? - Page 3

http://www.offa.org/hipguide.html

"What can breeders do?

Hip dysplasia appears to be perpetuated by breeder imposed breeding practices, but when breeders and their breed clubs recognize HD as a problem and establish reduction of HD as a priority, improvement of the hip status can be accomplished without jeopardizing other desirable traits. Prospective buyers should check pedigrees and/or verify health issues with the breeder. If suitable documentation is not available, assume the worst until proven otherwise.

Do not ignore the dog with a fair hip evaluation. The dog is still within normal limits. For example; a dog with fair hips but with a strong hip background and over 75% of its brothers and sisters being normal is a good breeding prospect. A dog with excellent hips, but with a weak family background and less than 75% of its brothers and sisters being normal is a poor breeding prospect.

OFA's Recommended Breeding Principals

Breed normals to normals
Breed normals with normal ancestry
Breed normals from litters (brothers/sisters) with a low incidence of HD
Select a sire that produces a low incidence of HD
Replace dogs with dogs that are better than the breed average"

http://www.offa.org/hipgrade.html
"Categories are:
Normal (Excellent, Good, Fair)
Borderline
Dysplastic (Mild, Moderate, Severe) "


Borderline isn't passing or failing but kind of in the middle......."Most dogs with this grade (over 50%) show no change in hip conformation over time and receive a normal hip rating; usually a fair hip phenotype."

Just because parents have good hips dose not mean they will produce this in their puppies. heavy line breeding is what would worry me more. Most dogs that I seen that have fair rated hips and no line breeding in first 5 generation will not produce bad hips. Bad hips have a lot to do with genetics. Another thing to take under consideration is how was the dog worked from an early age, for example I work my dogs hard from puppy hood, it's normal for me to take a puppy about 14 weeks old for walks, 5 miles a day, so my dogs might have worst hips than someone that keeps his in crate for first year. Environment, nutrition and genetics is what crates bad hips, not parents hips rating. I am not going to try to say don't pay attention to parents hips because that would be silly but don't walk away only because one parent might have fair (fair is still passing), especially  if they have a record of producing good hips. Keep in mind that guarantee is only as good as the man behind it. And for me is worth as much as the paper that is written on. Do you homework, rather than count on any guarantees. I am not saying that there is no honest breeders I will just say that people are people, and their word is only their word at best.

Looks like a normal puppy contract to me which 99% of the breeders  in the states are offering. Btw, Fair is still passing and means no signs of hip dysplasia.

I would like to 'thank" everyone who replied.  I have been reading and re-reading everyones reply.  so much information and I feel much better. 

I understand the breeder has to protect him or her self.  Also that the guarantee is really only worth the paper it is on and, I should carefully search and ask allot of questions and narrow my search to those breeders that I feel are answering my question without beating around the bush so to say. 

And then there is the buyer also.....some are so misinformed and think they know what they want, think they know what they are doing, they basiclly think too much as I was doing.  I guess I go frustrated or scared on that part of HD. 

Thanks all,
Mike

HD is not everything, you can miss on some good dogs by fixating on one aspect. Watch out for sweet talkers, breeders that answer all you question are not always best choice, look for the quality of info they provide, older more experience breeders will expect that you did your homework before you came to them, they are not there to educate you. Many breeders are kennel blind which is even bigger issue. You need to be comfortable with the decision you going to make. See the progeny best thing you can do for yourself, I don't care how much the breeders is pricing his breeding if I can't see the progeny than his word is once again just his word. Look for breeders that train their own dogs, they don't have to train them in SCH, or any other sport but actively train in something, those are the kind of breeders that tend to not breed something that they would not want to own themselves. See if the breeders is keeping anything back, most breeders that keep few dogs are breeding not just to produce another litter and make money but to improve their program, these are the breeders that breed for quality, I would watch out for claims I am a hobbits breeder, that  is just a claim, and dose not mean anything, actually many times it might mean that they don't know what they doing and breed just to breed. Look for breeders that been doing it for a while, look for breeders that are not close minded (trust me there are more of them than you think). Deal with breeders that are proud of their program, this is easy to spot. Buy dog for repeat breeding this is the best thing ever, because you know already what the pair produced. If you see breeder that dose repeat breeding, it means many times success, and most important it would be possible to verify their claim if you would be able to see the progeny. Stay away from breeder that claims that their dog are "the best" "total dogs" or perfect dogs, there is no such thing! Every dog got it's issue every dog got it's limitation. Breeder that dose not know his dogs issues and limitation is breeder that dose not know what he is breeding. Trust in your gut feeling if you don't feel right about something walk away. You will many times have to go through 10 bad breeders to find one right for you. But it's not the journey that matters but the final destination. Don't focus on people that breed SCH dogs and think that SCH is holly grail, it's not, and it might shows their are close minded. Watch out for people that claim their dog will protect you no matter what, most dogs wont, you train a dog to protect you he is not pretrain or born with that skill. When breeder say he has nice quality dog that will make perfect pet watch out he might just try to move leftovers. The breeder should feel confident about all his dogs, including the left overs. There is no such thing like pet dog, or sport dogs these dogs are created through training, and our expectations (sure it has to be genetically there to begin but my believe any well bred dog should have ability to be both). They are not born to be one or the other. I have a dog that has supper drives, and 100% confident that excels in SCH training and she is a perfect pet at the same time. I have a dog that been my wife pet for 3 years and now I am starting to working on her drives and I feel she can easily go SCHI, so one dose not exclude the other.

snajper69,  Thanks for all that info.  Especially, " Buy dog for repeat breeding this is the best thing ever, because you know already what the pair produced and When breeder says he has nice quality dog that will make perfect pet watch out he might just try to move leftovers".  

What the dog has produced!  #1 on my list.  I can use this website to somewhat research the bloodline.  If I find something I like, I will post it to see what others think.  I guess that would be ok to do?

Thanks,

I say if the breeder has issue with your research than he has something to hide, or even worst his head stuck you know where.

You should ask as many questions as you can there is a lot of good people on here, that will help out.

If HD is really making you worry, get a dog that's already been prelim'ed.....say 9 months or even a year,

The innitial cost is higher, but you can save a bunch in normal vet bills, feed and vitimines.......

Just a thought.