Combining show dogs with working dogs - Page 3

Vikram,

If some breeder mixes a little working lines into their showlines and has good results,
I doubt that would make Koos close Tiekerhook and quit breeding.
I also doubt it would change many show line breeders plans.
When Carl Fuller was doing it - that didn't stop others from either side.

I guess an interesting question would be:
Who is at fault for this division, markets, breeders or the SV?

Maybe it is ok to have both and should be looked at as genetic diversity.
(a tool for breeders)

It is frustrating see the humans (breeders & owners) bashing each other just because they have a black and red dog or a sable.

You said  "This years ULM show was proof enough of what gutter they have pushed the breed into."
Who are you referring to as they?

 

It would seem that the SV is at fault for not requiring better temperment.

The SV should have and did fail a bunch of dogs, do you think anyone got the message?

I guess we will find out in the next few years.

What would you think if the SV put a working line dog in a VA position?

     I'm far from any expert on this, but I was wondering this myself last night.
I myself think that any breeder that is looking into their future breedings, really needs to utilize "the entire pedigree", when considering lines to mix.
    Any "dead set", line, one way or another can make or break a German Shepherd.It may be more so in the showlines. Way too many dogs are bred to the same lines, over and over again, and than you get these roach backed dogs.(seems India has more than a fair share of that for some reason).
    Most know what is expected and anticipated out of any given (planned) litter.The challenge is now, to step out of the norm, and mix the lines a little bit. I really believe that putting some strong working blood into the show line, would give the showlines what they need. more working credibility.
    I am for the most part, a showline person. Since I've been coming to the database, I have gained an entire new outlook on the working line German Shepherds. Those that think the working line dogs are not just as beautiful as the show lines, are really looking at them with their eyes closed.There are some Gorgeous working dogs!!!

 In my opinion the workability test from showlines should be REMOVED once and for all and we should stop making a joke of workability which was apparent in the ULM this year. We do not want any V ratings for the working dog  and we would like to separate the two working line and show line dogs with the working line being the true embodiment of the German Shepherd Dog, once and for all. Show lines should be just for that for shows and nothing more. Show people can have their fun admiring colors and pigments of the dogs. While the real guys can keep doing the job with the dogs that are supposed to be done.

cheers

I am not a serious breeder but I have given some thought to this and have spoken to many committed breeders (working and show) who have been in this game for several decades. The following is a synopsis of these discussions:

Is the Total GSD a dog for everyone?

The answer that I have received from multiple sources is that the Total GSD IS NOT A DOG FOR EVERYONE! One breeder compared the total GSD to a thorough bred horse, another breeder compared it to a Ferrari. Just as a fine thoroughbred is not everyone's horse or a Ferrari is not everyone's car so also the total GSD. Now anyone may look at a thoroughbred or a Ferrari and fantasize about owning one but few can really qualify.

Now just imagine if people began to manufacture Ferrari-look-alike clones to satisfy this market fantasy... cars that look like a Ferrari whose engines even growl like a Ferrari but are much more gentler to handle has a hidden automatic shift and much softer suspensions to give you an easier ride....and just to make it legal let us create a certifying process that will give these Ferrari clones the imprimateur of authenticty with the logo of Enzo Ferrari himself.... this certficate will allow the self-deluding owner to parade his Ferrari to the world as having the title from Ferrari itself.... then let us take this process one step further.

Let us create a venue... a Grand Prix for all these Ferrari clones. where the various manufacturers of these Ferrari-look-a-likes can drive their creations around the track and prizes can be awarded to the winners.... and to ensure that we prove to the spectating public one more time that these are not clones but true products of Enzo Ferrari's assembly line that bear his certifying seal... let us have a small performance test ... a zero-to 60 time measure before we allow entrants to drive in the Grand Prix... of course the stopwatch being used to time it will run at the discretion of the referee...

... wait a minute... what do we do about that small group of GENUINE FERRARI entrants? Oh! No problem... those cars look so powerful and muscular... they accelarate too quickly and their drivers have a hard time conrolling their beast machines on such a tight and crowded circuit... their constant stop and starts make them look jerky.... we can put them in the last of the line-up as representatives of what not to shoot for in a TRUE Ferrari.....

"German Shepherd Dog Breeding is Working Dog Breeding or else it is not German Shepherd Dog breeding"..... Max von Stephanitz.

----Ravi Iyer

Bravo, Ravi! Excellent analogy.

Yes, the total GSD is not for everyone...and in such cases I'd recommend a nice golden or a lab! 

German Shepherd Dog Breeding is Working Dog Breeding or else it is not German Shepherd Dog breeding"..... Max von Stephanitz.



Outside this statement everything else is just bullshit.This topic is shit.

Also the reason Ferrari is not everyone's car is because not everyone can afford to buy it not because everyone cannot drive it everyone can learn to drive it if they can afford it.german shepherd everyone can pretty well afford it.

Also a dog is a living thing A Ferrari is not.And belive me not everyone wants a horse not everyone is living at a farm.

Also most shepherds are not fast enough to be compared to a Ferrari,but a Malinois on the oher hand most of them are very fast dogs and most humans can learn to drive a Ferrari before they can learn to handle a true Malinois.Apart from the speed,dogs have brain and they can think aFerrari does not have a brain therefore it can not think for itself.That is enough fun for me for now. have a good one.


Vikram, i am with you on this one.

I've had the chance to own 2 GSD from showline.Both have amazing drive. One of them is still young.

The older one (now 10 years old) is a totally fearless, self-assured, tough dog. Extremely drivey. Really, he was and still is working like a working line dog, even at 10.

Unfortunately his hips did not pass, so he was never bred.
Nice looking GSD from working lines do exist (like Bomber vom Wolfsheim).

So by mixing a V rated GSD from working lines and a top working dog from show lines, wouldn't you get great GSD?
And at the same time, variety in the gene pole?

Just a thought...are there any other breeders who did this?
 

what is your problem? what greatness are you trying to achieve from a dog? for god's sake its just an animal. Do you think it will clean your toilets and fetch you a morning cup of tea in your bed? i just think you are laughing while this pissing match of wits is going on this thread. the whole thread is based on pure stupidity I feel. The relationship between dog and man is neither in the consciousness nor is it consciuos of itlsef. So there is no need for so much of intellectual masturbation on this subject


cheers