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by rainforestscouts on 20 September 2009 - 14:09
As a kid, I had a 15 pound terrier that performed a bark and hold on two separate occassions with no formal training by just understanding the inflection in my voice. One of these times was in our front yard and the other was at a public park. She did not know the person in either situation and neither situation was a set-up.
RFS
RFS
by Rexy on 20 September 2009 - 15:09
From the experienced people in selecting a dog suitable for PP training, I am interested in a basic opinion on my GSD's temperament. He is 28 months old entire male (non neutered) who began to show aggression towards strangers and other dogs by 4 months of age. By the time he was 14 months old, he was an absolute handful to manage in public wanting to bark and lunge at any one strange to him. He is actually a very obediant family pet with no aggression towards anyone in his family/friend pack and no handler aggression and the bulk of his training has been to prevent him aggressing on command which he is now completely trustworthy and obedient in public, but due to command only. He as an extremely confident and dominant disposition and has no fears that have surfaced and tackles things head on. Things like blowing a hair dyer in his face, some dogs retreat, he will grab the hairdryer out of your hand, same with spraying him with a water hose, he will come straight at it and grab the hose in his mouth as a game, but doesn't retreat.
We haven't gone anywhere near training him to become aggressive and protective, it's been all about teaching him to behave and be sociable. He gives the impression that to chase and bite someone, to make them retreat and flee is good fun., any suggestions???.
We haven't gone anywhere near training him to become aggressive and protective, it's been all about teaching him to behave and be sociable. He gives the impression that to chase and bite someone, to make them retreat and flee is good fun., any suggestions???.
by Prager on 21 September 2009 - 01:09
To Rexy:
There is a difference between:
A) dog not to attack because you commanded him not to, but he still wants to attack (in his mind) and a
B)dog which if you tell him it is "OK" he will defuse and accept the stranger as a friend and has no animosity toward this person in his mind (!) any more,.... unless other command is given or situation requires it (i.e. for example; person attacks you or you command the dog to attack).
The A) dog is dog "under control" but really he is a loaded spring and is not safe at all(!!!) since he, in his mind, is waiting for excuse to "go for it". Such excuse may be minuscule> Like person gets out of the chair, coughs,...
The B) dog is a dog you want. Best is to train every dog for this from early age through proper conditioning. You need to make him a "LOVER" first, by introducing him to people through which only good things are coming to him. Like treats or game of fetch or even tug of war. Make him think that world is warm and fuzzy ball. Each such encounter is started by you by saying to him / conditioning him with words : "IT'S OK" and then comes above described reward. The people should be non threatening to him at all during this period. This is regular Pavlovian conditioning.
There is never too late for this conditioning, but longer you wait , longer it will take to teach your dog to defuse. Be prepared for 100s of repetitions of this. Pups should be imprinted from 4-6 wks for at least 8 mo of their age and continue for ever.
If you train the dog for protection you first must make him to be a "LOVER" and only then "KILLER" (= civil protection training). NEVER THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!! That way you will get sociable K9 protector who will think that world is warm and fuzzy ball, but now and then there is someone who needs killing ".:)
Prager (Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com
There is a difference between:
A) dog not to attack because you commanded him not to, but he still wants to attack (in his mind) and a
B)dog which if you tell him it is "OK" he will defuse and accept the stranger as a friend and has no animosity toward this person in his mind (!) any more,.... unless other command is given or situation requires it (i.e. for example; person attacks you or you command the dog to attack).
The A) dog is dog "under control" but really he is a loaded spring and is not safe at all(!!!) since he, in his mind, is waiting for excuse to "go for it". Such excuse may be minuscule> Like person gets out of the chair, coughs,...
The B) dog is a dog you want. Best is to train every dog for this from early age through proper conditioning. You need to make him a "LOVER" first, by introducing him to people through which only good things are coming to him. Like treats or game of fetch or even tug of war. Make him think that world is warm and fuzzy ball. Each such encounter is started by you by saying to him / conditioning him with words : "IT'S OK" and then comes above described reward. The people should be non threatening to him at all during this period. This is regular Pavlovian conditioning.
There is never too late for this conditioning, but longer you wait , longer it will take to teach your dog to defuse. Be prepared for 100s of repetitions of this. Pups should be imprinted from 4-6 wks for at least 8 mo of their age and continue for ever.
If you train the dog for protection you first must make him to be a "LOVER" and only then "KILLER" (= civil protection training). NEVER THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!! That way you will get sociable K9 protector who will think that world is warm and fuzzy ball, but now and then there is someone who needs killing ".:)
Prager (Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Rexy on 21 September 2009 - 03:09
Thankyou Prager, your advice is appreciated
by Mindhunt on 21 September 2009 - 03:09
I call it threat recognition and assessment (I let my trainer friend who trained Loki use it on his website to describe his protection training), either the dog has it or it doesn't. Loki would not go after someone if he didn't think the body language and scent indicated a threat. I could give him the command all day long, he just wouldn't. But....(there is always a but LOL)... he would tear a person he knew apart if that person was a threat to me. That is the way he was trained. Is there a realistic threat? Is the threat escalating? He will engage according to the threat level. You can see the wheels turning in his head; you can also see his body language change from squared up (between me and the other person) & staring to full bite. My female was trained by a different trainer and she has a quicker trigger (as "engage the bad guy" trigger not "I'm pissed off" trigger). Loki has saved my hide in the past. Now my Ronin is not protection trained at all. He doesn't bite and neither trainer could get him to bite the sleeve, but he did give all when I had issues with a stranger as I was walking him. All my dogs would protect me and have proven themselves. Both the PP trained two and the non-PP trained one.
by anniedfw on 18 February 2010 - 15:02
I want to say thank you to all who replied to me regarding my GSD. I have had him now for 8 months and love everything about him. He is very loyal and follows me where ever I go around the house and at bed time he sleeps on the floor besides me. He is very socialble with people and children. One thing that I can say for sure after having him for this period of time is that is very confident about himself and is not shy at all. He is not an insecure dog at all, I can attest to this. He has never shown any insecurities at all. Unfortunately I can not afford pp training right now however I do have faith that if we were in danger he would protect us. He loves us so very much. He is now 6 years old and very well mannered expect he loves going after rabbits and cats if he can get to them. If you have any feed back I look forward to it.
Anniedfw
Anniedfw
by Sunsilver on 18 February 2010 - 16:02
Annie, did you finally get him to alert to the door? I had a dog which had been an outdoor dog, so he did not know what a knock on the door meant. It took ONE 15 minute session with a pro trainer to teach him to alert to both the doorbell and a knock on the door.
Secondly, there was a story posted on the DB reacently about a home invasion in which a man's GSD service dog was shot and killed. The GSD did try to protect his owner, and paid for it with his life. I just wanted to give this as proof of what some have often said on this board: a dog is not sufficient protection against an armed intruder. The eldery, wheelchair-bound owner was severely beaten by these low-lifes after the dog was killed.
Thirdly, if you are going to have a dog protect your home, personal protection training is the ONLY sure way to go. Do not rely on the dog's supposed 'natural' protection instincts. These may or may not be there, or if they are there, may not be enough. And make sure it is PROTECTION TRAINING, NOT SCHUTZHUND!!
Case in point: A woman had split up with her husband. Her husband was stalking her, and she was very frightened. She spent $7,000 to buy a fully trained, German import GSD with its Schutzhund 3.
One night while she was out, her ex broke into her house through a skylight, and stole a number if items...INCLUDING THE DOG!!
Secondly, there was a story posted on the DB reacently about a home invasion in which a man's GSD service dog was shot and killed. The GSD did try to protect his owner, and paid for it with his life. I just wanted to give this as proof of what some have often said on this board: a dog is not sufficient protection against an armed intruder. The eldery, wheelchair-bound owner was severely beaten by these low-lifes after the dog was killed.
Thirdly, if you are going to have a dog protect your home, personal protection training is the ONLY sure way to go. Do not rely on the dog's supposed 'natural' protection instincts. These may or may not be there, or if they are there, may not be enough. And make sure it is PROTECTION TRAINING, NOT SCHUTZHUND!!
Case in point: A woman had split up with her husband. Her husband was stalking her, and she was very frightened. She spent $7,000 to buy a fully trained, German import GSD with its Schutzhund 3.
One night while she was out, her ex broke into her house through a skylight, and stole a number if items...INCLUDING THE DOG!!
by GSDtravels on 18 February 2010 - 22:02
I don't know that I would want a protective GSD living in an apartment. Alert by barking is one thing, but you're increasing liability if you actually want protection. Especially if you have a super coming in while you're not at home, good way to lose a good dog. You may rethink just how much protection you'd want if living in close quarters. I'd enjoy the fact that his sheer size and the fact that he is a GSD, would be enough to warn most away, who would have harm in mind. Just something to think about.
by RLHAR on 18 February 2010 - 23:02
It can also be a two way street by you learning to read your dog.
My girl for instance, doesn't bark at the door but she is always hanging out with me in the house. If I see her go from a relaxed platz on the floor to a stand, ears erect looking towards the doorway, I know that either someone is at the door or around the house.
Same as when we're out walking. If she steps ahead of me and draws herself up, I take a good look at what's around. If she pushes into my knee and shoves me over, I give whoever is walking the other direction towards us a wide bearth.
As for keeping out unwanted folks, I have a security system for that.
My girl for instance, doesn't bark at the door but she is always hanging out with me in the house. If I see her go from a relaxed platz on the floor to a stand, ears erect looking towards the doorway, I know that either someone is at the door or around the house.
Same as when we're out walking. If she steps ahead of me and draws herself up, I take a good look at what's around. If she pushes into my knee and shoves me over, I give whoever is walking the other direction towards us a wide bearth.
As for keeping out unwanted folks, I have a security system for that.
by troublelinx on 18 February 2010 - 23:02
Annie,
Think about is this way. Most dogs are discouraged from biting people or objects. Please do not confuse this with chewing on raw hides or chewing objects. Now all of a sudden the dog needs to protect the owner. Now we want the dog to bite and take the bad guy out. Can you see how this action that we want from the dog is totally different from what the dog has been trained previously in his life?
My guess is that he would not protect. If he did bite the bad guy he would bite and run.
This is just my guess.
Think about is this way. Most dogs are discouraged from biting people or objects. Please do not confuse this with chewing on raw hides or chewing objects. Now all of a sudden the dog needs to protect the owner. Now we want the dog to bite and take the bad guy out. Can you see how this action that we want from the dog is totally different from what the dog has been trained previously in his life?
My guess is that he would not protect. If he did bite the bad guy he would bite and run.
This is just my guess.
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