Why OFA and the "A" Stamp Aren't Good Enough - Page 3

SunSilver
I had two of my Dogs Hips Tested both in Germany and in Belgium, so done twice by different bodies results came from the SV and from the Belgian organization and the results were the same both A, and the tests were done some 9 months a part
if a person cannot believe the results of two different organizations from two countries where do we go from there, if it is that we do not believe the results given by people who are supposed know what they are looking at and doing, then we may as well not bother in the first place for there is no hope at all
Steve

Rik:  You mentioned using a different dog for OFA hip if a top dog is known to have bad hips ....substitution....well,,, the vet is suppose to look at the   recorded    tatoo or the chip number to report with his ofa xray that is submitted.....so do you  tatoo two dogs the same ???? How can you do the substitution since you have to have a tatoo or a chip ,,, or do you slip the vet a $100.00 bill?? to forge the paperwork...?

Rik you are 100 percent right in your assertion. The biggest hinderance to breeding today is as you put it "single focus breeding"!!  People have stopped breeding for the total dog to put priorities on certain aspects of the dog. Now this is ok once, to try to improve an aspect you are lacking or need improvement in. But people will breed four generations in a row for croup, angulation , shoulder, hips, etc, while the total dog goes to hell in a handbasket. Show me a line of dogs with extreme angulation and good temperament, show me a line of 95% good hips and good temperament, show me a line of dog with extreme shoulders and consistently good temperament. When will people understand that when you concentrate on one aspect too much the working ability goes out the drain, unless you focus on working, which the dog was made to do. You will not get to 95% good hips with strong working ability without some genetic breakthrough, I don't care which test or cert you use. You may get the 95% but the working ability won't be there and as far as I am concerned without working ability you are no longer breeding German Shepherds. Hips, coats, size, and other traits are the result of this breed being comprised of different types of herding dogs. They will always be in the breed to a certain level. Breed for functional working dogs and try to improve recessives within that focus.JMO 
In the days when working and conformation were in one package, people bred for working and took the best conformation dogs and showed them from the litter. Today people breed just for conformation and the working ability went in the handbasket. You think priority of specialized breeding isn't apart of the loss of statue of the breed in the working world.

thank you, rik & gustav.  that really needed to be said.  unfortunately, there will always be those who just don't get it.
pjp

gustav:   Good Post     agree/

Remember that once we raise our hip standards for breeding (to, for example, better tests and higher standards of results) we REDUCE the gene pool further.  This is not necessarily healthy, and this tradeoff must always be considered. 

Also see Willis for heritability studies.  Hips are only partly correlated with parent's genetics -- and less than you think.  We will also have HD with us, no matter what we do.  This doesn't suggest we do nothing, of course, but it shows that a program of improvement has to be given some freedom to fail now and then.

I would say that working line kennels over here mate there Dogs according to workability on the sport of Schutzhund, That is paramount to the Guys over here, and most get there Dogs Korclassed
.Many kennels i know must have titles on there Dogs and they are worked and trained by the Owner to get those Titles, they enter them in Shows etc to get the gradings In fact they do all they can to keep the Working ability in the breed, But whist doing that they also make sure the mating match up regards the two Dogs I know the breeder of Izzy thought for very many weeks which Male to put to his Female long before she came into season 
He knew all the Males very well but took his time picking what he thought was the right Male regards Temperament Workability Size Shape everything he goes into before he mates his Dogs, and he has the experience and the patience to do his best to get what he wants in the coming Pups,
 And for sure in the case of Izzy and her only litter mate left in Belgium, he will have made that right choice of that i am sure, at the tender age of 13 weeks three very knowledgeable people have made good offers to buy the Pup, and from those offers i could buy at least three more good bred Pups to replace her so they are good offers, so they must be seeing something in her which they like very much
Steve

May I remind you of the obvious? Good hips are needed for a working dog. And too much inbreeding/linebreeding on dogs with bad hips got us where we are today.

I totally agree with Rik about focussing on conformation to the detriment of working ability, though. If  showline breeders aren't careful,  the showline dogs are going to go the way of the American GSD, especially if they continue to water down the working tests required.

Sunsilver
i guess your post may be directed at me as i posted last, Look at my post regards Workability and regards the showing of the working line But i guess you are referring to the Show line in general, and that may be right they do not work there dogs enough and the tests are certainly watered down as you say, for over here you never see show lines in any sort of competitions to prove they have what it takes, and for a country so small no other country in the world can match the amount of competitions or championships that go on over here during the year
Plus the few Showlines i have seen working in the Sport of SchH would hardly get the passing scores in a real competition so in that respect you could well be right,
Steve