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by Sophie on 25 February 2009 - 12:02
I am some what at a loss as to why you should change your vote to NO - but this is your choice.
This reason I would think that photos from Nov 08 Champ show have not been used perhaps copywrite!
I have just followed the link that David has given http://www.users.globainet.co.uk/~juleaman/ and find the photo that has been used for Sue's article. It would appear that this dog although semi retired from the show ring is at stud to approved bitches. So one can assume from this that the dog is modern and not dead. The other picture she has used to my knowledge is the 2006 Seiger.
As for going back to 1966 - well everything in life changes may be not sometimes for the better - but change does occur. Surley this what is done with dog breeding. Change occurs. The GSD has changed but I would dare to suggest that looking at the Champ show pics for Nov 08 on the Alsatian web page no change has occured in a long time!
Sophie
by Sue B on 25 February 2009 - 13:02
by Nettagirl on 25 February 2009 - 13:02
by Member on 25 February 2009 - 14:02
It has only taken a couple of days for someone to notice that Zamp was the 2006 Sieger and not 2007, so much for Bill reading The Catholic Times while I read the Breed Council Magazine (in an early post Bill Mentions this comparison). How can we expect anyone to represent our Breed as a Press Officer at Crufts whilst we are all over the show with voters now changing their minds half way through a simple vote of YES or NO?? The problem we have in the Breed today is we lack leadership of an ELECTED person who speaks for us all who we all respect. If we cannot agree our aims collectively before we discuss our concerns with the Kennel Club with any proposals in the future we are dead in the water!!! Although I will stick with my YES vote I now think the vote should have been to remove the name of Alsatian and maybe not to split the breed because this would have shown a more united front. Many of us who had the early GSD`s in the 60`s and before are those who have moved with the times and progressed along with the breed, and now breed the Modern GSD. For these enthusiast and my wife is one of them they only know one GSD. The fact that the Alsatian fraction got lost along the way with their placing at shows no more than the likes of a raffle, under in many case’s all-rounder Judges where most just turn up just to see how they will get on should not be our concern. Our concern should be to educate if possible those who are newcomers to the breed through our GSD Clubs in the UK, my VPG branch of BAGSD in Cornwall with the second highest membership in the organisation promote the German Shepherd Dog, all our members support the modern type, they are not aware of any Alsatians and the name never comes up in conversation. Full credit to David in starting the vote and allowing his site to host it but if it’s a change of name you want and a successful outcome then have a vote on the name "Alsatian” being dropped and watch the votes come in then. As for Bill I meet him at shows and think of him as a friend, his views are his own and he should be allowed his opinion . In an early post when he mentioned The Catholic Times of being of more use than the Breed Council Magazine I cannot agree, We are very fortunate to have our own monthly magazine and if only people would contribute more with articles etc it could be vastly improved, although I must say if your interested only in a GSD that runs in circles and not the COMPLETE GSD maybe you are better of with the TIMES.
John Ward
by Sue B on 25 February 2009 - 14:02
Thank You Nettagirl,
Bill please note the dog was at stud in 2000, so a long way from your suggestion of 1966.
Let me clarify, I have never wanted to breakaway from the KC, the WUSV is the World Union of the German Shepherd Dog which two of our oldest KC registered Clubs are also members of, therefore not separate from but is actually what defines and Unites the Breed World Wide.
The split between the types was initially the Brain Child of an Alsatian enthusiast not I, but since it became apparent there is no hope of the true Alsatian fanciers ever been able to appreciate a the true German Shepherd Type, then yes, I finally succum to their way of thinking, it is time to split.
If on the other hand the KC will not allow a split then it is more than time to remove the word that depicts a ficticious breed called Alsatian from our Internationally recognised and acknowledged Breed of German Shepherd Dog.
Hope that clarifys any misunderstandings that may have been gleened by and from above posts.
Regards
Sue B
by patrick on 25 February 2009 - 14:02
Sue, It seems that we will have to disagree on you're motives for using that foto, and interpretation of middle of the road dogs. You stated the foto on the top left of you're article depicts what you consider, in you're opinion to be an Alsatian! I think you will find that foto is of Zamp! obviously, like you Sue I made a mistake on the year, it should have been 2006. Sue we all know you are a very sensitive soul, and if you get upset you tend to go and do something very dramatic. I will leave the article writing to the people who feel the need to do it! I have a living to make! I leave you with the thought, You will never be intelligent enough to insult me!! Regards Bill.
by Sue B on 25 February 2009 - 14:02
lol
by Sue B on 25 February 2009 - 14:02
Regards
Sue
by paulie on 25 February 2009 - 15:02
you need to stop this now, there are people all over the world reading you verbal fisticuffs, who dont even know you!!!!!!!! I do, and i also know that both of you are too intelligent to carry this on any further, just agree to disagree. I am friends with both of you, so please do it for me.
Kind Regards as always.
Paul.
by Videx on 25 February 2009 - 15:02
I requested Sue to write this summary "To Split or not to Split" because I was receiving questions by email and phone, asking me for more information about the ballot issue. I directed some to the thread, however most said it was too much to read with over 500 posts, So I decided a "summary" of the reasons for a split was needed. I discussed it with Sue, and my views on the content, and I have to say I found her summary excellent.
The photo's CAN be changed. I can use Champion Ice as the correct type, and if someone can obtain for me a photo from the UK Alsation 2008 Show and obtain permission to use it, I will. Bill I resent most strongly your public outbursts on this matter. Jack Daniels is needed to put you right.
The Middle of the road GSD does NOT enter into this issue. We have various degrees of type in our dogs, they even vary in my Kennel, and in every kennel. We do not CLONE our GSD, however the Alsatian type, as so emphatically retained and promoted by the likes of Roy Brandon of Lornaville Alsatians, is a TYPE TOO FAR, especially with all its known issues. I would want Roy and his followers to continue enjoying his dogs, as a separate breed. NOT in anyway linked with our GSD breed, and certainly being unable to mate with our GSD breed.
John Ward, I fully agree that our breed should now be named the GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG. full stop. It is long, long overdue. Sue very eloquently covered this issue in her summary. If the Kennel Club DECIDED to drop the appendage (Alsatian) from our breeds name, maybe, just maybe, we could unite and tackle the "compulsory" Health Screening tests, and other issues that are very important for our breed, especially but not solely for the current ALSATIANS. I am quite prepared to conduct a similar ballot, for the same KC affix group, on the question of dropping the name (Alsatian) from our breeds name, after CRUFTS, if that is the wish of our people.
Now can we please all focus on the best interests of OUR breed, The German Shepherd Dog, here in Great Britain?
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