Clicker training police dogs?

by Mindhunt on 01 February 2009 - 22:02

How well will the dog hear the clicker in the chaos of a chase or take-down??? Having worked as a FF/Medic and being on more than a few scenes where K9s are being used, I know how noisy and chaotic scenes can be, I can't see a dog being able to hear a clicker (even though their hearing is amazing). That said, I have talked to my K9 trainer friends who said the world needs people who are willing to try new training methods, more tools for tool box thinking, because you never know when something useful comes along and can be adapted. Clicker training is great for tricks and other benign behaviors, I just don't see it in protection, tracking, muzzle work, etc. But that is me.....

Dogs are amazingly intelligent and we are still scratching the surface of their abilities.

by gsdsch3v on 01 February 2009 - 23:02

So if I don't have the "special collar for drug searches" with me because I have to respond in another vehicle she will not be able to remember how to find weed? Will she be happy with the blue ball if the red one is missing?

What if we don't have the harness used in training for bitework? Will the dog still be able to trial? Can the dog trial in a fursaver if a pinch collar is used in training?

Silly questions yes but the opinion of the clicker itself having some magical training value so strong that the dog can not work in the absence of it annoys me. If the training is at the point the dog is working on the street the dog isn't going to depend on the clicker. Just look at it like another collar or toy to maybe put it more into perspective.

by Jeff Oehlsen on 02 February 2009 - 00:02

Quote: How well will the dog hear the clicker in the chaos of a chase or take-down???

You shape behaviors with a clicker, not command the dog with one. LOL Some of you need to read up on clicker training a bit more. : )

Using a clicker is just a more accurate way of marking a correct response. Unfortunately, some seem to think that because you can get a dog to shut a kitchen drawer with a clicker, that you should be able to shape EVERY thing that way. My hat is off if anyone can show me how. I would rather click than use an e-collar any day.

by 4pack on 02 February 2009 - 01:02

I can distinguish the different starters on cars too, what's that got to do with anything? Anybody who can't tell the difference between a civic, Ford, or Buick starter, needs a hearing aid or to pay more attention to shit. Dogs can pick up the differences in car tire tread noise too, I'm not so good at that but my dogs can tell if it's my neighbors diesel pickup or my boyfriends before they reach our block.

There is no magic power in the clicker, you can clap your hands or say good/yes or use the pager on your e-collar and get the same responses. It's the timing and technique not the tool.

by Slamdunc on 02 February 2009 - 01:02

Clickers can be a great tool to help shape and train desirable behaviors. As Jeff mentioned it is a marker for a correct response. I've seen people use clickers for many things. I've used it for article searches and retrieves for SchH. There are applications for detection dog training with clickers for both narcotics and explosives. I haven't known any K9 guys to use clickers for anything so far other than detection dogs. It certainly could used in obedience training and may speed up the training process with green dogs. I actually like the concept of clicker training I think it is very valuable.

Jim

by Mindhunt on 02 February 2009 - 03:02

I have yet to trust my life or well being to a dog to hearing a clicker. I would rather the dog listen to my voice, the tone, timber, cadence, etc. Jeff, I am curious if you have used clickers in real life situations, and if so what situations, not that I am being bitchy, though it may appear that way and I apologize, I am just trying to learn from others experiences. Have you used clickers in real K9 situations and if so what have you learned, no really, I want to be able to add this to my tool box of training tools if you have something I can learn from. Again, I apologize if this sounds pissy, that is not the way I mean it. The problem with threads is body language and voice inflection can not be shown or heard.

by Gustav on 02 February 2009 - 04:02

I know that Wallace Payne has said that he sometimes uses it for obedience foundation work, especially in starting his focus training with the dog. Bottom line is its like anything else, a tool and different people can accomplish different levels of things with tools depending on their expertise.

by Slamdunc on 02 February 2009 - 05:02

Mindhunt, I'm not sure you understand the concept of clicker training and shaping a behavior. Perhaps you do and I am misunderstanding your post. Obviously, you wouldn't clicker train a muzzle fight. You wouldn't clicker train a bite work, but it could be used as a marker for teaching the out for example. All the clicker does is tell the dog it has done a correct beahvior and a reward is coming. Timing of rewards is enhanced with the clicker because you can click at the exact instant you want to reenforce. Then offer food or a ball slightly after the click. The reward is not the click, but the ball or treat. The click tells the dog he is correct and the reward is coming. They have started using this training with gymnasts, so it's not just for dogs or dolphins anymore. The click when the gymnast is in the correct position, on a balance beam for example. Then the gymnast can make a mental note of the exact position he/she is in. The clicker is phased out as the dog learns the behavior. The clicker doesn't replace your voice, it is just more consistent and the timing is better and it works with your voice for praise.

I don't use it for protection work, but I would use it for detection work. You said you wouldn't trust your life or well being to a ckicker is like saying you wouldn't trust your life to a kong, ball on a rope or food as a reward. Of course you wouldn't, but you may use them in training. The clicker is the step between the correct behavior and the food or kong or ball. It has nothing to do with working in a real life situation, just like I don't pull a kong out during protection work or while I'm on the street with my dog. It is for training not actual work. I hope this makes sense, I may not be the best at explaining this. Also, please don't take any offense or anything negative from my post it is certainly not intended that way.

Jim

by Slamdunc on 02 February 2009 - 05:02

Mindhunt, I'm not sure you understand the concept of clicker training and shaping a behavior. Perhaps you do and I am misunderstanding your post. Obviously, you wouldn't clicker train a muzzle fight. You wouldn't clicker train a bite work, but it could be used as a marker for teaching the out for example. All the clicker does is tell the dog it has done a correct beahvior and a reward is coming. Timing of rewards is enhanced with the clicker because you can click at the exact instant you want to reenforce. Then offer food or a ball slightly after the click. The reward is not the click, but the ball or treat. The click tells the dog he is correct and the reward is coming. They have started using this training with gymnasts, so it's not just for dogs or dolphins anymore. The click when the gymnast is in the correct position, on a balance beam for example. Then the gymnast can make a mental note of the exact position he/she is in. The clicker is phased out as the dog learns the behavior. The clicker doesn't replace your voice, it is just more consistent and the timing is better and it works with your voice for praise.

I don't use it for protection work, but I would use it for detection work. You said you wouldn't trust your life or well being to a ckicker is like saying you wouldn't trust your life to a kong, ball on a rope or food as a reward. Of course you wouldn't, but you may use them in training. The clicker is the step between the correct behavior and the food or kong or ball. It has nothing to do with working in a real life situation, just like I don't pull a kong out during protection work or while I'm on the street with my dog. It is for training not actual work. I hope this makes sense, I may not be the best at explaining this. Also, please don't take any offense or anything negative from my post it is certainly not intended that way.

Jim

by missbeeb on 02 February 2009 - 10:02

I thought I'd give it a go... rather than say, "watch me", I'm going to try the clicker for attention.

Clicker training police dogs? - Page 3

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