Paying MORE for a health guarantee.

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by Karon Melillo dVega on 29 January 2009 - 08:01

"here's another funny quote... Would it sound better to hear the price is $1500 or if you prefer, $1000 without guarantees? Breeder to breeder sales often are for a lower price without guarantees. Breeders buying from breeders know that all is done to ensure a healthy dog, and expect lower prices without guarantees. Basically buying at the higher price with guarantees means the breeder will replace the dog if there is a problem...want a lower price, then yes, the dog comes without guarantees. Seems reasonable to me."

What is that about ??

Forget that ...
Here's my best advice ... trust your instincts
you are on the right path
i think you know the right thing to do

your friend in Montana

Karon Melillo d'Vega
Von Sonnenberg Kennels
Missoula Montana

by yellowrose of Texas on 29 January 2009 - 08:01

Any breeder that tells you there have been no hip d yslpasia in their lines for 10 years would have to dig up every dog they bred for me to believe that one..Aint gonna happen...Prove it if you claim it..

Show and pull every ofa on every dog ever bred in the lines and Ill believe it...
Heard that bull before in ads in the classifieds in Dallas and Houston Texas..

Couldnt prove it either...She said well , we never heard of any? yeah right, just like a vet tells you , you have good hips...and ofa sends back mild dysplasia...
no pass.

No breeder on the face of this earth can guarantee anyone there will be no health defects.. You are not God. You guarantee that the puppy is healthy and has been vet checked and parents are of OFA hips and no genetical problems are in the two parents..You cannot guarantee anything beyond that.
Yr

by Karon Melillo dVega on 29 January 2009 - 09:01

there seems to be a lot of angry people either registered in this pedigreedatabase website or random responders

1899 .........is that long enough far back to challenge this writers challenge to ask anyone across the planet CAN PROVE it ........ just because she can't prove it doesn't make it so according to her slayings.........

Yellowrose of texas ... you sound like a very angry and resentful person ...... whatever you have said in your last response indicates your attitude ... which is negative and angry and cynical

by kitkat3478 on 29 January 2009 - 09:01

     All I guarantee is that IF, and "IF" being the key word, a dog you get from me has a congenital defect, I don't care what it is, I WILL give a replacement pup.

     I do, research past, present and future litters. I know what I am expecting out of my dogs, and what I have produced. It is my main goal to produce geneticlly sound dogs, with sound minds.

      I am not expecting ANY health issues, in any pups I breed. And I WILL stand behind my dogs, and my breeding program, 100 %.

      If for any unforseen reason, even though no fault of my own , because I am taking preventive measures to "try to"ensure, I have no genetic defects. I will give a replacement pup.

     I don't think it is unreasonable for a buyer to expect a healthy, sound dog, and I think every breeder should feel confident enough in their lines to say, If there is a problem, I WILL ACKNOWLEDGE, and REPLACE!

by Karon Melillo dVega on 29 January 2009 - 10:01

Let us hear positive feedback please ...
this messageboard has nothing to do with your given or not genetic defects as you very well know we are discussing puppies, and the subject of the matter takes us all back to the very first messages

from

Horse30189

what are your thoughts darling ??

by HareValley on 29 January 2009 - 16:01

I'm in total agreement to those posting that it not possible to fully guarantee there will be no health issues in the future health of any pup or human or ANY living being. I see no way anyone can guarantee a living being. I can sell you my washer/dryer with a guarantee, I can sell you my old car "as is" and when I sell my pups they sell with a guarantee that covers them until the buyer takes them into their vet to confirm the pup is healthy, bouncy, and has a solid temperament. When I sell my pups they are given at least one, usually two complete vet exams, sometimes by more than one of the vets I use, then are offered with a 48-72 hour health guarantee (pick up or shipping) that leaving here they are healthy with no apparent issues and no worms or detected diseases of any type that can be found with a full vet examination. When giving a guarantee longer than 72 hours too many things can happen, even in a 24 hour period after this guarantee expires. How many of us have had buyers call us telling us the weekend after they got their pup they took them to Petco to pick out the toys or treats they wanted, or took them to a doggie park when they took their pup to their grannies to visit that weekend. Anything can happen after that first 72 hours and we as breeders cannot guarantee against it.
With the type guarantee I offer I am able to keep my pups in a very realistic price range and I require a Puppy Application to be submitted to me including two references, one being their current veterinarian. I admit to turning down an average of a dozen applicants per litter and even turned down 26 applicants on one litter because I want to find the best possible homes I can, I want to know I've chosen responsible, knowledgeable homes and I want them ALL to be homes for life also. With my "way" of placing my pups I am able to sell my pups from $850-$1700.00 (VA sired) and I get homes that relish my pups and I get marvelous reference letters and have made many dear friends too. This is my 2 cents

by Held on 29 January 2009 - 16:01

if puppies are crapshoot then how can a so called reputable breeder guarantee it.health and hipps there are too many varieables.the only thing a breeder should guarantee is replacement.have a nice one.

by sueincc on 29 January 2009 - 17:01

I don't give a shit about any guarantee, don't even read them when considering a dog or pup. I care about the breeders honesty, knowledge, fairness and sincerity, what the breeder has produced, what their dogs have produced. I also know pups are not machines, there is no magic formula that will guarantee a perfect any living thing. There are environmental factors outside of the breeders control to consider, and OF COURSE all pups are crap shoots. So would I ask and expect my breeder to hand me a new pup for free if the one I bought turned out to be broken - NOPE!!! I do know the breeder would help me out every way possible and would give me a big break if I needed it to get my hands on the next one when I was ready. To me, that's fair.

If I was worried for even a minute and wanted to double check that guarantee to make sure the breeder couldn't screw me, then I would decide not do business with that person.

If I wanted the guarantee of a healthy dog that also was of the right stuff for sport, then I would buy a young adult already started and with health clearances. Naturally this dog would be a LOT more expensive than that 8 week old pup.

by Horse30189 on 29 January 2009 - 18:01

RE: HareValley

So what happens when one of your buyers comes to you after taking prelim X-rays, and it's discovered the pup has hip dysplasia even though the owner has done everything right as far as nutrition, care, and exercise, and the veterinarian believes it if congenital?

Re: Sueincc

"So would I ask and expect my breeder to hand me a new pup for free if the one I bought turned out to be broken - NOPE!!! "

While I hope you are referring to other posts, I, for one, never said that the breeder should hand over a new pup for free.

RE: YellowRose

I was not speaking about any particular breeder. I was merely making a general observation. I also noted in my second sentence "non flaming/heated" as I would think that we are all adult enough to offer our opinions on the matter without feeling the need to bash others. I am sure there are breeders out there that have been breeding Shepherds for decades that can go back and show you every one of their dogs, OFA ratings, etc. that show no hip dysplasia; however, the fact of the point I was making was an EXAMPLE for comparisons sake...not an actual breeder.

Re: Karon

I won't buy from a breeder that markets puppies as $1000 without a guarantee or $1500 with a guarantee. Either offer a guarantee or don't. By saying $1000 without or $1500 with, it makes it appear that you treat your animals like inanimate objects.

--- I would also like to say that rude, hateful, or down right mean e-mails that are sent to me will automatically be deleted and go unread. I see no reason why to resort to namecalling or judging myself, my character, or my knowledge of the German Shepherd breed (20 years). I was merely asking for opinions on the marketing of offering a guarantee at a higher price (like I said - offer one or don't) and was not looking for judgment of myself as a person. ---

by SchHBabe on 30 January 2009 - 03:01

Horse, it is difficult sometimes to differentiate between genetic and environmental effects. For example, hip dysplasia is a classic example. It is a condition influenced both by the environment AND genetics. On the other extreme might be a condition such as undescended testicles in males... as far as I am aware there is nothing that an owner can do to influence whether or not both "boys" drop into the sack. As such, there are limits to what a breeder can and cannot guarantee. -Yvette

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