The right commands for Schutzhund/Rules - Page 3

Seriously, I use German commands because I think that their phonetics get me a better result than the English counterparts. Ex: Platz has a certain snap to it, while down does not. I can stretch Hi-ER to two syllables, which would be hard to do with come. I use Voran instead of Revier because I don't want my dog to be confused if he only hears part of it in the wind.

Also, I have been using German commands my whole dog training career and its hard to change after this long. When people send me a dog started in training in English, that dog goes home with German commands, mostly because its easier for ME. Non-enforced commands (not used on the training field) around the house are in English, like "Go Lay Down," or "Get Out" (of the kitchen, bathroom, workshop...) because if I give a field command I HAVE to ENFORCE it, therefore have to be in a position to enforce it, which I am not usually when we're indoors, lest I teach the dog that command is "optional.."

SS

Actually, you are supposed to stick to one language and some judges WILL deduct points when they know that you have switched.  They think it is a form of handler help. 

Some dogs don't even need a command.  During the courage test, my male could care less what comes out of my mouth that is not "fuss" .  I have said "struesel," "ice cream"  'Cool Whip" and "pickle" at different times in place of packen and he simply takes anything he doesn't recognize as a command as permission to go get the bad guy.   Of course, I have never said it loudly enoug for the judge to hear what I said, either.  It's just my own little private joke. 

Its just as well dogs don't have the same argumentative temprement as people otherwise we'd get nowhere!!

I'm a judge in the UK and my interpretation of the rules are this, the language has to be all the same; ie if you use "Fuss" once, then you use "Fuss" every time!  Otherwise you can use whatever language you feel comfortable with!

 Actually, diesel, NOBODY is being "argumentative."  In fact, we (at least those of us who actually train and trial) are all saying the same thing.   No need for you to get your nappies in a bunch!! 

btw--I am sure you are aware that there are slight  variances in the rules from country to country.   Naturally, judges are expected to respect those variances when they judge in other countries.  Do  you judge outside of the UK?

Some dogs don't even need a command.  During the courage test, my male could care less what comes out of my mouth that is not "fuss" .  I have said "struesel," "ice cream"  'Cool Whip" and "pickle" at different times in place of packen and he simply takes anything he doesn't recognize as a command as permission to go get the bad guy.   Of course, I have never said it loudly enoug for the judge to hear what I said, either.  It's just my own little private joke.

I have, however, seen judges deduct points for a double command when the dog let out automatically, no command given the first two bites, (escape and attack on handler) then received a (late) command (one) for the courage test. Since then I give them an "aus" command whether they need it or not. These are the kinds of things they DON'T tell you in the rule book, often learned the hard way. 

SS

Yeah, I learned about that automatic out the hard way, too.  My late bitch had a n automatic out , because I taught her to out quickly as a puppy (4 months on) to out quickly and cleanly, so the game could continue, or for a treat, etc.  I thought I was absolutely brilliant!  Then, a judge in a trial stated during a critique that the bitch had a clean out, but it was automatic, so he felt it was the result of training with something "illegal."  Only the reaction and denials of several people from different clubs convinced him that it had nothing to do with electricity, that she'd always had a clean, fast automatic out from puppyhood. 

Needless to say, I did not do that with my next puppy.  As a result(?), he has never had a fast, clean out like that. 

I have gone back to trying for a fast, clean, but not automatic out.   Maybe this time, I will get it right.

ROTFLMAO   I had much the same experiences, but I messed up at least the first two dogs I titled from zero almost beyond repair. Add my early lack of handling skills and Its a wonder they passed at all.

I have a tape from the 80's I like to show newbies when they get depressed after a bad training session or a trial failure, just to make them feel better (which it invariably DOES)  I call it The Emma Files. It took 7 commands to get Emma to release in C, the last one delivered right in her ear, with a great deal of editorialization ("Godammit Emma, OUT or DIE!) She didn't heel to the occupied blind either. (The routine was different back then)

As for obedience, all I will say is that 7 yr. old Emma, who had 5 litters to her name by that time, stayed within 10' of me most of the time, (incl the send out) even when I let go of her collar. (briefly) She did a pretty good job of climbing the hurdle, but only in one direction. I did most of the finishes, positioning MYSELF next to Emma at the heel position, like the judge might not notice?

I wish someone had video'd the tracking on the local golf course driving range with golf balls everywhere. Emma LIKED golf balls... ('nuff said)

Bill Field's critique of our, uh, "performance" is a classic. (232 pts.- Vorhanden). Emma was never seen on a trial or training field again. It took me a long time to live that day down. I doubt anyone else would show that tape to anybody... ever... for any reason. LOL Definitely Schutzhund Blooper Hall of Fame material.

SS

 Funny, Fields was the judge who questioned how I got that fast out. He couldn't believe that a bitch with such a hard grip would out that cleanly and automatically.   After we all came off the field , I showed him how I had trained it with a kong and other toys, giving the puppy another toy immediately when it outed on the first toy.   Then, I reminded him that the re-attack was simply a version of the game I had played with her from early puppy-hood: she lets go and gets another bite.   He asked when I started doing that with her, and I told  him 4 months--she was about 7 at the time.   So, he got it, and so did everyone else listening.  Funny thing is that one guy tried to use it on a "bought dog" with an outting problem.  Why he did not realize that it was way too late still eludes me.

Come to think of it, Bill Fields was one of the judges that I saw take points for the double comand described above. I think Frank Mensing may have been another one, if memory serves, but don't hold me to that. Emma did not "hold the Heuppah Mezmerized" (a famous Bill-izm) but she did do a very convincing hold and bite in the blind.

SS