Gassy Dog...Suggestions please - Page 3

Hodie,

That's just it.  I don't know if the vet is doing the right things or not.  I feel like I should have some idea of what's going on with him by now.  I stopped switching foods when everyone told me to, then the vet told me to switch.  And when I talked to him Friday he wanted me to switch to another Science Diet prescription diet, even after I stated he's doing the best on the EVO than he'd done period, better than I/D even.  Everything is looking up on the EVO so I opted not to change because everyone here has made it clear that switching is not good, especially when a dog is having stomach issues.  It just doesn't sound like IBD to me from what I've read.  Of course, I could very well be wrong.  Maybe I will find a vet who can test for it.  My vet told me there was no test for it, that it was a process of elimination.

I recently read someplace (I've read so much trying to figure this out, feeling like my vet is not taking this as seriously as I am), maybe it was even you, who told me dogs can be allergy tested.  Is this a common thing?  If I take him to a city is there a good chance we could do that?  You know his story, what would you test for first, allergies or IBD?  I don't like this guess work and this "let's try this for two weeks" thing.  I mean, no doubt, I credit the first vet who saw him with probably saving his life.  But my normal vet just keeps saying "let's try this"  Is that how it works when a dog has digestive problems? 

I have never been in a position like this, as I've said, I'm highly frustrated....  I don't know whether to keep carrying to my vet and spending at least $100 a week on treatments that don't have a major effect or to find another vet or what.  I do know, he is much better, and while one loose stool every week or two might sound bad to you, there's been several days where this dog had more diarrha than I could count.  Many days he was a lot more gassy than he is now.  I've got him on digestive enzymes and he has improved on those.  So maybe, I can hope, it's nothing serious.

Hodie, you're far more experienced than I am...what would you do?

The only way to confirm IBD is by biopsies, there is no test.  You say that there has never been blood or muccus in your dogs stools, well it depends on whether the large or small intestine is involved. With my own dog it's the small intestine--he had no blood or muccus, just runny/watery/yellow/very smelly stools.  When you had his bloods done, were they normal eg cobalamin and folate? What meds is he taking and what dose? 

Just noticed he is on antibiotics and pred. What dose????

Brady Bee,

His bloodwork was "normal"....I don't know any numbers.  He's presently on Septra 800-160 twice a day and Prednisone 20mg once a day (he took 2 day for a week, one a day this week, one every other day next week).  He weighs 98 lbs.  When he has diarrhea, his stools are runny and smelly, normal stool color never yellow, but very foul smelling.

 NWilz,

In order to try to help you at this point I would need the entire story, in detail. What was the original trouble, what you tried, for how long, what the vet has suggested etc. My suggestion is that you find a vet whom you trust and stick with that vet. These kinds of problems can be very difficult to solve, especially if one is constantly changing things. In order to see what really works and what does not, one must stick with a regimen for weeks, not simply days, unless the condition is made dramatically worse.

The situation you describe is certainly not normal, but, based on what you say, he is better. When he has these terrible stools, have you had them tested again? If so, what were the results? If not, why? Have you tried Tylan powder at the suggestion of the vet? 

The medications he is on sound reasonable to me. Others may need to be added or tried. Yes, I am sympathetic that this is costing you money, believe me. One suggestion I might make is to find an internal medicine specialist. Talk to him/her about what has been done so hopefully there will be few duplications. 

One additional possibility is that he reinfects himself with whatever......so disinfection of all surfaces, bowls, and even the dog is important.

If he is doing well on the EVO I would stick with it too for the moment. Did you try low fat content foods? There is a test for IBD and it is a biopsy. That is very expensive and hopefully will be unnecessary. Give the dog time to heal. If his GI tract was all messed up, it was surely injured and this takes time to heal, just as would a wound. 

If you have specific questions, feel free to ask, but again, find a vet who you feel comfortable with and stay with him or her. Otherwise, you end up going around in circles and some suggestions you get and try may be counterproductive.

Good luck. It does seem like you are making some progress.

NWilz, these gastrointestinal problems can be very difficult to diagnose correctly. If your dog has small intestine problems, he could have blood in his stool and you would never see it. But he could simply have had GI tract upsets from his other problems. You may not know what the cause is in the short run. The question is whether he stabilizes and you say this is happening. That's good. And it's great that the yeast infection in his ears is gone. You were lucky he was such a good sport about the treatments.

I agree with Hodie on the food. Stick with the Evo for now. I originally thought your dog had terrible diarrhea. Now I know it's only once a week or less and that's not so bad. It sounds like he's getting better. Some dogs get bacterial overgrowth in their bowels from just being on antibiotics - there's no bad bacteria or parasites, just an overgrowth of what's normally there. This can cause loose, nasty smelling stools and gas. Try to have one of these kind of stools tested so that you know for sure. Maybe you have already done that. Sometimes giving digestive enzymes can help this condition. Doesn't seem like it should, but my experience has been that it can. Half of a tablet or one whole tablet of Imodium with simethicone can help with the diarrhea and gas also. A biopsy is the gold standard diagnosis for IBD, but let's hope that your dog doesn't need one. I understand your not wanting more vet bills all too well. I've had more than my fair share lately.

You say he's up to 98 pounds. That's probably partly caused by the prednisone he's on, but the prednisone is necessary. When he is off all medications, you may want to try a lower fat food just to help get some of the weight off him if it doesn't come off by itself. Don't worry about that right now. This is just something to consider once he's stable and off all meds.

I too would advise sticking with one vet that you like. Vets (and medical doctors too) often don't have quick and easy answers for the medical problems that they see. Vets do basic tests like CBCs and fecals and smears/scrapings that lead them to recommend certain treatments. Sometimes those treatments work but sometimes they have to be changed. Dogs don't all respond the same way and some dogs respond better to one drug than another. That's why vets change medications. It's frustrating for the client (that would be you) but sometimes it happens.

I agree with Hodie. Stick to the treatment plan you are on since it seems to be helping. Sick dogs don't get well overnight.

Thanks Hodie!  I sent you a PM.

Hodie and Sam, when we made our inital trip to the vet I took a stool sample.  Since then, due to ignorance and not thinking, I've not collected a stool sample.  The next time he has diarrhea, I will get a sample.  Will they be able to properly process it there or do I need to request that it be sent to a lab?  This is new to me, my female has a stomach of steel, so I'm overlooking obvious things.  One reason I came here, many of you have handled or heard about similar situations and I need direction.  I feel completely ignorant for not carrying back one of the diarrhea stool samples, that should have been obvious to me.

I am going to give my vet a little more time, my dog is getting better.  I've seen a lot of difference in the last three weeks on the EVO.  The protein scares me, but my dog is doing so well on it.  Both vets know about each other, and I had the inital vet he saw (who was 4 hours away) write a letter and I disclosure the full treatments he'd been given with my regular vet.  I didn't mention to my vet that he saw the other vet because of trust and his lack of experience, just said he saw the other vet and left it at that.   I wanted instant results and I've finally accepted that it supposedly took my dog six months to deteriorate to the condition he was in and it's not going to heal overnight.  Always before with my dog, I've went to the vet and got the correct treatment first time, but I've been VERY lucky I now realize.

As for his weight, he weighed about 80 when I got him and was skin and bones, looked absolutely like death.  The few people who saw him before I got him to the vet guessed he weighed between 50-60 lbs.  He's a very large male, heavy bone structure, BIG dog,  His dad weighs something like 107 and is at a healthy weight (I got to meet his fatrher) and I figure that's going to be about right for him.  When my boyfriend allows him to jump up on him, my dog's feet will reach his shoulders and my boyfriend is like 6' or 6'1"...so yeah, BIG dog.  Oh yeah, and he weighed 98 when I took him to get the Prednisone so he may weigh a little more now, but I stress, he's very lean. 

Let's just hope he continues to get better and the diarrhea just fades away.  I am hoping it's a result of prior poor nutrition, unsanitary conditions, and such.  Whatever it is, I'm going to try to treat it as effectively as it can be treated.  I still can't believe I haven't thought to take in another stool sample, that's pure ignorance.  So far no diarrhea in a few days and just gas.

And lucky doesn't begin to describe how blessed I've been in treating him, he's been awesome about twice a week baths and twice a day ear washes for a little over two months now.  He is quite happy that there's been no ear washing for a few days.  He had it down to a science of when I gave him ear wash and would lay down and look pitiful at me when I picked up the bottle.  His skin is looking awesome...and I'm thrilled.  He's progressing faster than the vet expected and faster than I expected on everything except the digestive issue.  I am glad we're down to diarrhea only once every week or two.  Next time, a sample goes to the vet.   I just hope when he comes off the Spectra and Prednisone everything stays good.

Hodie, I disinfect everything EXCEPT his bowls.  What is a safe way to do that?  I hadn't thought of that either.

Thanks so much you guys.  We really appreciate the concern, help, well wishes, and advice.

Reading your last post, it seems to me he is doing very well. If he is only having diarrhoea once a week or so and his blood work was normal, it may be a very mild case of IBD. The treatment appears to be working, although I agree you should take another stool sample to your vet. In fact in my dog's case, I had to take one every day for a week, to rule out parasites etc. I also agree you should stick with his current food if he is doing well on it.  He is a very good weight and with IBD you would normally expect to see weight loss, so it appears you have things under control. The telling time will be when he is off all meds. I do hope it all works out, I wouldn't wish IBD on my worst enemy, especially when it's severe, like in my boy's case.I wish both of you luck and good health. Please keep us informed of his progress.

 NWilz,

Disinfection of his food bowl should be simple by just washing it in a dishwasher with hot water and a sanitation cycle. It probably is not the problem. 

The stool samples, perhaps several in a row, are a must. I cannot tell you how often people go around in circles with their dog with similar problems only to later find that the loose stool was, indeed, caused by some parasite or bacterial infection. So that is ALWAYS the first thing to look at, and do so repeatedly. It is not hard to miss organisms sometimes. So broad-spectrum treatment, assuming parasites or bacterial infection can be useful and it seems like your vet is covering that base.

What is the name of the enzyme you are giving, how much and how often? How do you measure out his food?

A couple of suggestions to consider:

1. Find a low fat, low fiber food without any grains. This may be what your vet was suggesting. it may  make a huge difference.

2. Feed the dog smaller amounts, perhaps three times a day. Diarrhea can result from too much food going through the digestive tract too fast.

Ask your vet about Tylan powder and whether he/she thinks that is worth a try.

Based on what you are saying, again, it seems you have made progress. Keep a written diary, especially of what you do and feed etc., on the days he has loose stool. For certain, what you describe is not normal, but I doubt that he has IBD, in its worst form anyway, because he has periods now, more than not, of normal stool. There are also other medications that can slow the gut down a bit. So ask your vet about that. And it might be useful too to consider giving the dog something like Zantac, with your vets approval.

Finally, whatever you do, only change ONE thing at a time, whether you add something or take something out of his diet or meds. Give the change ample time to work unless serious problems arise. Keep a journal so you do not forget what you are doing and what the results were. His stool is telling you still that something is not right, at least on those days. It may now be something simple that you have overlooked.

Good luck.

NWilz,  regarding the questions you asked about the stool sample. Just call your vet, tell them you'd like to have a stool sample checked again for parasites and bacteria because your dog still has diarrhea once a week or so. The vet's office will decide whether they can do it there or send it out. Perhaps Hodie has already given you advice on this. 

The idea of keeping a log of what and when you feed your dog, when he has normal stools vs diarrhea, and what activities he does is a good one. It will help you see patterns you might otherwise miss. Be patient on this and keep up with the log. Patterns don't emerge overnight.