ASTANA STATEMENT - Page 3

Pedigree Database

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justcurious

by justcurious on 03 September 2008 - 05:09

 congenital heart conditions make the heart more prone to infections perhaps that's what was meant rather than the infection itself.


Seeker of Truth

by Seeker of Truth on 03 September 2008 - 11:09

A poor choice of one word on my part.

I will restate that I would think that a heart infection COULD be congenital. It really is a mute point unless the owner(s) will step forward and tell the truth. Without full disclosure we will all be left to speculate, WOULDN'T you agree Hexe?

 


by zacsmum on 03 September 2008 - 12:09

Heart infections are congenital now?  For goodness sake, what utter rubbish.  Engage brain before opening mouth!!!!!!

If you realy cannot sleep at night until you find out the cause of this dogs death, then why not have some guts, and contact the owner directly, instead of speculating on matters which you obviously know nothing about, but are quite happy to comment on.

At the end of the day, the owners have lost a beautiful dog in his prime, and will naturaly be devastated, have some compassion, think about how they are feeling, and how they must feel to read such negative and ill informed comments regarding their dog?


by Teri on 03 September 2008 - 12:09

I sent an email to A. Katheiser of Langenbungert Kennels to view this thread.  I don't know either party or what is going on but figured every dog should have his day and opportunity to protect their position.  

I am sad to hear a young otherwise healthy and outstanding GSD as Alfons passed away.  It would be helpful to know why Alfons passed away if it would help protect the off spring or any other GSD's possibly in danger depending of course on the reason of illness and death.  

I agree an infection is NOT a genetic issue.  I also agree that genetics can make one prone to medical issues but it doesn't seem likely that a dog who has been healthy enough to compete in schutzhund would have any serious health issues.  Having said that, any of us could have an underlying issue we are unaware of until a problem arises.             

Teri


by Watcher on 03 September 2008 - 12:09

At the end of the day, the owners have lost a beautiful dog in his prime, and will naturaly be devastated, have some compassion, think about how they are feeling, and how they must feel to read such negative and ill informed comments regarding their dog?

To be honest zacsmum i don't think people are hurting Tom and Julies feeling as most were saddened to hear about this dogs death. You have to remember they posted this statement and have given no reason as to why it was made.  This is were the problem lies because everyone then jumps to conclusion about what happened to the dog or between Ansgar and Tom & Julie for this statement to be made.


wacky

by wacky on 03 September 2008 - 13:09

Thanks Watcher for your statement, You are so right! none of these posting about Alfons have anything  to do with the dogs death WHAT SO EVER.

This is to do with what as gone on WELL BEFORE THE DOGS DEATH  between the 2 kennels, and its such a sad shame. Ansgar and is family were so devastated to loose the dog.

Don't forget,  Ansgar cared for this dog from 6 months old, loved him, trained him, and campagained him, now  Ansgar and his family have lost there beautiful dog and a member of the family,  Alfons gained his status in Germany and became the dog he was solely because him. 

Jackie.


by LilyDexter on 04 September 2008 - 20:09

I didn't know anything about this topic, just thought the title looked interesting so read the replies.  I wondered who this 'Alfons' was & so looked him up & found his pedigree.

I don't know why this dog died but I can tell you something.  I have a bitch that is a granddaughter of a prominant dog on the pedigree of 'Alfons'.  From a tiny pup she showed extreme & abnormal aggression, had the most awful movement with paws that drag & cause her nails to bleed, developed nuerological problems & suffered a seizure at six months and  had to be put on Phenobarbital. 

At 2yrs she was diagnosed with severe food allergies, thankfully the exclusion diet she was put on stopped the aggression. She has just had her hips x-rayed & it has been discovered she has HD with arthritis, although her appalling movement is thought to be also due to the neuro probs.  Considering she comes from such a good line, she is an appallingly decrepid example of a GSD, but despite this she remains happy & full of fun & we love her.

I have heard rumours about her grandsire, but cannot get hard evidence to confirm them.  I was not surprized to find him on this dogs pedigree.  He has been extensively used at stud, and has probably produced thousands of healthy pups, so people will dismiss any worries about him carry serious hereditary illnesses.  But maybe they are just starting to surface, or maybe they are being swept under the carpet?


by Wildmoor on 05 September 2008 - 01:09

I have pm'd you Lily as I have a grson, possibly same dog you are talking about.


by zacsmum on 05 September 2008 - 15:09

And so it goes on, maybe you would like to blame this dog and his ancestors for global warming, the poor exchange rate, or something equaly obscure? Have you never heard the saying "dont throw the baby out with the bathwater"?  Whilst I have nothing but sympathy for you and your dog Lily, sweeping statements such as yours merely serve to reinforce the vicious and for the most times, untrue rumours that seem to be the flavour of the day on this board.  Alfons was a beautiful, well put toghether dog, with an exemplary temperament, who will be sadly missed by his owners, and anyone who had the good fortune to see him in action.

I myself was the owner of a fabulous, once in a lifetime dog, who I like to think would have maybe won top honours, but alas, his hips were a less than desirable score of 60, unthinkable from 2 low scoring champion parents? I didnt point the finger at anyone, accepted that although his show career was over, I still owned the same beautiful dog, who was bought, by the way, as a pet, with no intentions of showing, but I got lucky, and he grew into a fine specimen. I would go back to the breeder for another pup from the same breeding if it was still possible. They arent to blame for the quirks of genetics, and did everything right to ensure as far as they could that they bred healthy pups. I could go back ten generations in the pedigree and find all sorts, such as epilepsy, blood disorders, and hip dysplasia, but where does one stop?  He was my pet, and I loved him, and the breeders werent to blame.

How would you feel if you logged in here to find people doing a verbal post mortem on one of your much loved dogs? It stinks, and it shouldnt be allowed.


by LilyDexter on 05 September 2008 - 16:09

I didn't say my dog was by Alfons and he is not on her pedigree either.  And I am quite prepared to accept  that a dog can get ill & that a dog may carry a number of genetic illnesses that may or may not be passed on.  But I think my dog has had more than her fair share here.  I have her veterinary records, so can ensure that I am not creating a rumour. 

I wish breeders would be more open any illness that might crop up on their lines, i'm not expecting good examples of the breed to be completely avoided, it would just help people to combine lines to the best effect. 

I think the breed needs as much help in battling hereditary illnesses as possible, it's in a terrible state.  Sweeping genetic problems under the carpet is just going to make things worse.

 






 


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