Culling - Page 3

My doberman was the runt of the litter, was whelped last  (#6) over 24 hours after the first pup made an appearance, and she had a heart murmer.   Some (stoooopid) people I knew had bred this litter... and although I wasn't dog shopping, I adopted her.

She grew up to be a healthy robust girl, and at the age of 13 had outlived at least 3 of her littermates, one of which was owned by a veterinarian.  The other two were kept by the breeder.    She was a joy to have, and I miss her to this day.  She was, what you call, A Good Girl. 

By the way, my German Shepherd at the time helped to raise her.  They were quite a team.

yes, we have culled.  don't like to think about it, but sometimes it is the right thing to do.

pjp

>>>How would you prevent that dog from later being bred(IE, White Doberman Fad)?  Would you do an early spay/neuter(IE, 8-12 weeks), prior to allowing the dog to leave your property?<<<

Good question, I am not sure I know the answer to that one, to be honest.  Since I would give the dog without papers, he or she would not have registered offspring at the very least. I most likely would give the dog to someone I know who I believe will not breed the dog.  I am not comfortable with altering dogs that young, I don't think they get the hormones they need to grow in the ways they should.  Very little research has been done concerning the effects of spay and neutering early.  These are accepted and promoted procedures in the USA, but it is not as commonly done in Europe, as many there believe it is not good for the health of the dog.  Who is right?  Without unbiased proper research, there is no way to know.

Veronica

Two Moons, your remark about albinos being special is interesting.  I've heard that before, though not in dogs.  Veronica

Yes I would cull...

yes I have culled...

Yes For detected genetic health defects....

   Should I have culled harder... probably...  I placed 2 pups with mild cardiac issues with people I knew, who promised Never to breed them... One on limited registration one with no papers and with written contracts in both cases...  the people who had them later bred them anyhow... to my great displeasure as a high number of that generation had heart problems also. And it came back to bite me... Beautiful pups who grew to be lovely dogs... ones EVERYONE wanted to know where they came from.... so now I hear "Oh, you are the person whose pups all have heart problems!" dispite the fact that it was only in one litter, and the parents were immediately removed from breeding stock. 

Would I cull for an albino??  First...  do you mean a REAL albino?

Or a White German Shepherd with black pigment? Not the same thing.  For a WGSD nope... they're beautiful.  for a true albino... if it came with genetic health issues such as blindness, cardiac problems etc.. same criteria as for any other GS pup.

Windwalker,

Actually I was thinking(without wanting to start a war) of the "panda" shepherds.  Where the GSD's produced dogs that had tons and tons of white on them.

In my "chosen" breed, Rotties, any white that will be bigger than a quarter is considered a serious fault.  As well as white on the toes(possibly from Bermies or Swissies being thought to have been brought in at one time, due to lack of breeding stock?  May be a bit of an old wife's tale, I have never researched it out)

Also, in Rotties, Reds are a no-no.  And I have seen, in 25 yrs 2 red Rotties.  I was there when the dogs were bred, and when they were whelped----same lines(litter mate sisters, bred to the same male)  Both of those pups were "culled" by the breeder.

I am not sure what the answer it....I know that I made a mistake about 2 yrs ago, in not culling an entire litter of puppies....

I was given a pregnant bitch(she was 20 months and "accidentally bred" by a 20 month old male)  The male has since, to my understanding OFA'd Good.  The bitch, when I took her in to have her ex-rayed to see how many pups there were, was SEVERELY dysplatic----as in no balls and no sockets....It was pretty shocking, actually, as both her parents were HD Frei(Hips and clear elbows).  I "Believe" that this bitch was dyspastic due to feeding(owner fed raw without researching)(Owner was and is a complete and total idiot)  Bitch was 6 weeks along when I got her, and was fed this "raw" diet up to that point, and was skinny(at least 5-8lbs underweight) when I got her, as well as the other bitches in the house were beating the crap out of her.

Make a short story long, I let her have the pups----The owner wanted to charge $1500.00 for the pups...I laughed.  Dog was in his name completely, as was the contract.  I refused, and sold the pups with a 50% guarantee on hips for $750.00 each.

EVERY Single female(4 in the litter) turned up dysplastic.  All the boys are fine, and should OFA fair or better.  2 of the girls have since been euthanized.  1 will likely be put down in the next year, and the third has had both hips replaced.  I have refunded everyone's $$ that wanted a refund(The two whose dogs are still around).  The other two are waiting for a puppy out of my bitch Largo, which will be given to them, free of charge.

But, in hindsight, I should have "culled" that litter when they were born and been done with it.  I have tried to do right by the litter----I was able to get both surviving girls spayed for $50.00 , and three of the boys have been neutered for the same price at the clinic, I gave everyone 6 months of HW and Flea/Tick prevention, and all dogs have gone through puppy kindergarten and basic obedience free of charge(all were local to me, so they came to me.)  All pups went home with 40lbs of food, a crate, microchipped, etc....All vaccines were free of charge the first year(IE, puppy shots and rabies, I get at cost at the clinic, so no biggy)  They all will continue to enjoy HW/FLea/Tick at cost, as well as deep discounts on vaccines, and exrays will be done free, if no sedation is required.

Yes, the dogs are loved, and are pretty decent dogs.  All went on limited registration(for the remaining boys it will be lifted if the dogs pass OFA hips and elbows).  All are "conformation" correct.  A couple of the boys are pretty tough dogs and would have made good sport dogs, I think.

The original owner of the bitch, kept a puppy, btw.....He is planning on breeding it. 

That's the issue I had with the placed puppies...  Though their condition wasn't life threatening... and they would live a normal or near normal span in a sedentary lifestyle in retrospect perhaps I should have had them put down when they came up with the problem, not placed them because they were bred against the contract, and sold with no papers before I found out about it... As hard as it may seem... Euthing the 2 pups with the heart condition probably would have been better in the long run. 

Veronica,

It's hard to explain what I mean by special, an Albino is a challenge to nature.   It's start's out marked for death, nature is not kind to the one's who are different and they must fight great odd's to survive. Many culture's consider them to have spiritual meaning.     I consider them to be innocent, cast into this world as a test.   I believe them to be beautiful creature's who have a purpose beyond what my eye's see.    Maybe to touch my soul.  Maybe to touch the soul of nature itself.

Simply to call them a freak of nature, or argue the genetic's of Albinism doesn't have any meaning to me.  They are a gift as I see it , something of wonder, not some kind of mistake.

Oh well, I'm getting too deep for myself now.  Talk of culling and Albino's will put me in a mood.

Brent.

A while ago I asked a longtime breeder what his thoughts were on a weak or obviously abnormal pup.  One that the mother paid no attention.  I asked what he would do.  Nurse it? let nature take it's course?  Cull?

Plain and simple he said sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.  He asked me what happens if you nurse a pup and it goes to someone or some family and two years later it dies?  What happens if a nice family gets the pup and has nothing but heartaches and vet bills for a few years only to watch it die?