drive or grip? - Page 3

buy them both and keep the one you like better

seriously,  hard call.  without seeing the video, or better yet getting to watch the dogs in person, i would have to go with dog one.  thats my cup of tea. 

i was wondering about 2 things

when you said one had a slack line and the other was tight.  why was this?  was this a handling thing, or was it done on purpose. 

if the amount of pressure was close to the same thats one thing, but what you describe, it sounds like dog 2 had more frontal presentation (which can lead to munchy in  a young dog) and dog 1 was more to the side, then brought into a frontal position, easier for them to adjust to the position.

just my observations,  good luck with your choice,

john

sounds like my first litter,  it was an accidental breeding, turned out to be 1 dual purpose, 1 bomb detection dog, and 2 really nice pets.

and some people think Koss is crazy  for breeding 2-2 on Nick.  i would sell my left you-know-what for one of those pups.

john

John,

The work was pretty good pressure on both for such green dogs. I am sure he did this to try and show me what the dogs were.

You are correct, in that dog 2 had a little more square frontal pressure, but less stick. Her entry was fully commited with the decoy square. Other than being a little chewy with the pressure, her grip was calmer and fuller.

Dog 1 had more stick and a little less body language. But like I said every time the decoy went over her head with the stick or went square up, she re-gripped foreward.

Dog 1's entry was kind of goofy because of the handling and the presentation. His wife was handling (don't think she is a pro) and the dog looked up at him so I think he made the presentation to avoid getting bit. She is a head shaker. I see her as the more civil dog.

BTW....

Dogs are out of state so I can see them. If I had the time, I would fly out there.

I have considered buying both of them, but my house just closed escrow

GARD,

off topic here also.  you havent heard screaming yet.  wait till i breed my shepherd to a dutchie,  they you will get to hear screams. 

'IF ITS NOT A WORKING DOG, THEN ITS JUST A DOG"

john

Atta boy!

I was going to do that too

God damn it which dog do I choose?

If you want, PM me your E-mail addy and I will send you the videos.

Ya know what, I think I have it

For FR it sounds like dog one.  You can deal with more hectic drive then in schutzhand.  If it was for schutzhund only I would pick dog 2.

I've seen a couple Mals  I wouldn't mind having.  I've seen a couple that turn me off the breed.  But I can say that about GSD's too.  I've seen less Dutchies but have liked what I have seen.  I'll stick with my GSD's for me for now.

GARD,  keep us posted please!  And do post pictures when you get the one you pick.

You probably already know I'd go with dog 2 if made to choose. "So much drive the dog is a pain in the ass" I can't take that shit. Been there done that twice, with your stupid puppies already. I'm already seeing issues with the super drive dog I have now. She's going to kill/hurt herself before adulthood, which will make her no good for anything. Do I want or need a dog that might shatter all it's teeth and need new ones put in? I can't afford that, but a littermates owner already has. Fun Fun. If I could have a 100 calm Baden's that fall asleep with a full grip, doesn't need to be a wigged out freak to take on the decoy, cautious to his own well being (so a little slower) while doing it, I'd never look at other types again.

It's fun watching the other dogs that do flips on the end of the line and fly through the air, but not so fun taking them home and living with them all the time. Your different and can ignore the 24/7 barking, pacing, weird issues that much drive can bring, perhaps now that  you have your own house, you may change your tune when AC comes a knockin', or your neighbors want you dead.

I think dog 2 will harden up and lose the chomping with some age and work. The slight look at the shaker bottle may just mean, she is more aware or suspicious which is good in a patrol dog. Sounds like she has more brains than dog 1 and still enough drive/courage to get the job done, full grip is nice. Wouldn't it be nice to not have to work grip? Oh come on....you know you want dog 2, you already said she's the one you were drawn to first! Don't over think yourself again. For me, dog 2 would be easier to bond with and if you have that good bond and your dog trusts you, you'll be able to send her in anywhere, on anything. Just because it hase drive or is a nutjob doesn't mean it has courage (remember that).

A dog with a ton of drive isn't necessarily a hectic dog.   I think being hectic can be very difficult, if not impossible to overcome.  If dog #1 is hectic, I would prefer dog #2.