WORKINGLINE V SHOWLINE - Page 3

I think that all contributors to these and other similar post should consider what they are hoping to achieve by their participation in this and similar debates. It seems to me that we are losing sight of where the breed currently sits and the good progress made in many areas over the last few years. Publicly “ripping the other side to pieces” can only be negative in terms of moving the breed forward, especially in the UK at this time.

Let’s take stock where we are. I have had, and retain, an interest in both the working and breed side of the GSD for over 30 years. In that time, I have seen many changes; mostly for the better. I am currently purely involved in the Working side of the GSD; however retain many happy memories of my time involved with show dogs, exhibiting frequently and successfully in the UK and visited the breed Sieger in the eighties and early nineties on many occasions. I saw many superb all round GSD’s;  I recall my friend and I being left in the gathering ring with the impressive double Sieger Fanto Hirchel, who was a dog with super character, seeming unphased by anything. The dam of my own 1997 BSA National Champion was a daughter of Jack Trienzbactal (forgive the spelling errors). (Vorhanden Jeck,hips 4-3, kor 1 Terry Hanan).  I only became disenchanted with the breed side during the early nineties, following the promotion of a number of animals to high VA positions which evidenced, in my opinion, serious temperament flaws. I consider that this situation led to deterioration in the character of the breed stock in the UK for a time.

I think to some degree that things have improved, as the SV reacted to the problem and sought to make it more difficult for weaker dogs to succeed. Again, my anecdotal experience is that, as a consequence, many of the breed line animals that people bring to me to assess or help in training are now showing a more robust temperament and ability to react to informed training methods than in the past. It is correct to say that these dogs (generally) would struggle to live with a specific working line dog in terms of outright performance- but many are decent all round dogs nevertheless, and not everyone can drive a Ferrari.

I do think that size and mass are an issue, especially in the context of the production of a true “utility” dog; but, again, the SV seek to address this.

Anyone who has attended the Bundersieger or even the WUSV World Championship over the last few years (As I have) can only conclude that the type of the working animals exhibited there has improved dramatically; this is possibly in response to a worldwide pressure to meet Kor standards, etc. This is

CONTINUATION  nice to see. In the UK context, any observer at the GSD League/BSA National Championships in 07 would have seen dogs of anatomically harmonious construction that are obviously GSD’s and also super working dogs.

Along with the efforts of BAGSD, the League seek to move the breed forward in the UK in a harmonious fashion- LET’S STOP ARING OUR DIRTY WASHING IN PUBLIC AND BE PART OF THE SOLUTION.

Chris Bows

Well Nugget , after reading all that I was rather hoping you were at least going to say you had found me a working bred dog in the U.K. to use for stud with the criteria that I am looking for ........... surely there must be one somewhere folks ???.

I did mention my old dog (but he's dead) and I am not interested in breeding at the moment, so am not really aware of the hip/elbow status of what I might consider to be potentially productive stud dogs- but be assured, if I were, I would find out, and am confident that I could source a suitable animal in the UK.

I am therefore sure that some research on your part may be more productive than making negative comments on this board if sourcing a stud dog is genuinly your objective. Sorry if I bored you.

Few more boring facts....the "split" in the breed in the UK may be more imaginary in your mind than real...were you aware that the BSA Nationals was won from 1994 to 1998 by dogs from prominantly showline gene line? or that only two UK National champions have been from what I would consider to be exclusivly "working" breeding?  does not fit ito your "Working V Showline theory perhaps,, but sadly (for you) true.  

Get out and look at a few Trials; if you don't like what you see, tough. from the perspective of the vast majority, these are correct GSD's. The owners don't want to show them; it is not their interest. (niether is breeding) Most of them (if not all) have been subject to hip/elbow X ray screening (as have all my own dogs, and everone I know in the sport). When it is possible/neccesary to Kor my dogs in the UK, I will willingly undertake this; but we are moving forward, our judges are shortly to be regognised by the WUSV and I am sure that other moves to achieve parity in terms of breed development with our Europian neighbours will be sucessful......with some level of goodwill.....

Trueview

Hanniball von den drei Kronen, owned by Keltic Kennels is a super balanced dog, mentally and physically, with a normal hips (not sure about elbows) and Sch H III, lives as a housedog with another dog and a 2 year old child.  His photo does not do him justice, but you can still see his balanced proprotions and correct croup and backline.  Look ar his pedigree and you will see the dogs behind him are overall good construction.

Margaret N-J

NUGGET.    Excuse me for not wanting to use dogs that don't fit my criteria !!!.   Everybody has there own standards and choices of stud dogs.

For your information I have been looking for well over a year for a stud dog to use and as I said before I could not find one in the U.K. with the criteria that I want .................. Yes of course I can take my bitches across the water to a stud dog but I was just hoping I would not have to !!!!!!.

To think that I cant simply ask people to keep their eye open for one without receiving hostility and negative remarks from you is a poor show !. It is not me that is being negative at all just because I am looking for a certain standard I'm branded as being negative ............ I don't think so ! .

You talk about the breed going forward in the U.K.  ........... it wont get very far forward with your attitude will it !!!!!!.

KAFFIRDOG.    Thank you for your input I will look up the dog you have mentioned.

Trueview,

Although I do not live in the UK, I too had a very difficult time finding a stud that met my criteria in addition to the standard and would compliment my female. It took me three years to find the dog I wanted. I had everyone I trusted looking. Some dogs came very close to what I wanted, and a couple were missing important information I needed to make an informed decision. I poured over pedigrees, spoke to owners, watched dogs, and still felt that I was never going to find what I wanted. After three long years, I finally found what I was looking for. Turned out he was in my own house.

I, for one, applaud your efforts ! There are entirely too many breeders out there around the world, just slapping dogs together because they can. When someone takes the time, makes the effort, and puts themself out there during their search....those are the breeders I will go to.

To some of us, breeding is an important undertaking, and not one we enter into lightly. 

I wish you the best of luck and a keen eye to find what you search for!

DeesWolf............  You are like a ray of sunshine !.

 Thank you for your comments. I am glad there is someone out there with a similar view .

I was begining to feel like a leper !.  

Kaffirdog. .............................    I have tried to find the dog you mentioned but alas I could not find him on the Keltic kennels website and when I tried the new site they advertised it appears not to be in action ?????.

Truview - I don't think Nugget was suggesting you use dogs that don't fit you criteia but just pointing out how to find out if there is indeed a stud dog out there that will.  I know from breeding in the past that it isn't the number of dogs availabe but finding one to suit your own purpose.

Nugget - thank you for your calm but possative posts which hopefully will restore some commonsense to this board.  I like you still take an interest in the breed side of things because if gave me so much pleasure for a lot of years but my life has changed and what I now want from my dogs has changed.

Jess

jesse james.   In effect you are saying the same as me anyway.

I am fully aware there are many dogs available for stud work and beleive me I have looked extensively in the U.K. but of course there could well be one that would suit me somewhere which is why I am open to suggestions as I havent found one yet.