Video about crooked (overkill) vets - Page 3

VBK9 is right.  The vast majority of vets do a terrific job.  The cheaters, like in any profession, should be reported and thrown out.

There are only 28 vet schools in this country, so yes, getting in is really tough and the expense is tremendous - often they come out over $200,000 in debt.  Think about it.  They go to school just as long a human doctor and get paid much, much less.  But what else can they do?  That's how much it costs for the education.  They definitely have to love animals to continue.  In addition, they have to pay for their office buildings and their staff as well as their equipment, so expenses are huge.  Another thing, I read an article that said that "non-paying" customers average 30%.  Can you imagine doing $X amount of work every year knowing that fully 1/3 of that money you will never be paid?

Most customers DO expect the vet to have modern equipment, and if ever there comes a day when a condition of your pet is missed because the vet DIDN'T run a test to find it, people will run here to bash "careless" vets about that. 

People expect the same level of treatment and expertise for their beloved pets as they get from their own doctors, but most people have insurance.  Ever look at an itemized people doctor or hospitalization bill?  Thousands and thousands of dollars for the care, and we only pay a tiny fraction.  Go to the vet and you see the real costs but there's no insurance company paying 80% of your bill, so we have to pay it all. 

What do you think good, honest vets can do about this?

Generally speaking, you can't have it both ways. Either you use a vet with all the bells and whistles and pay a lot or you use one that gets by with the minimum for more resonable fees and then use another with more sophisticated equipment if and when needed. Most dogs will never require complicated tests or surgeries in their lifetimes and if they do there will always be a referral vet available.  For years and years vets did simple surgeries on dogs of all ages without a bunch of blood work, etc before putting them on the table and I doubt anymore died then than do today. Breeder might alos think about learning to give their own vaccinations, cutting nails, and scraping teeth.

Most recent vet school grads hire on with an already established practice and work  until they pay off ther student loans and can afford to open their own practice. Some are content working for another vet or one of the large veterinary conglomerates that seem to be getting more and more popular these days. They get all the dirty jobs and the crappy hours, but it is what it is and a little research before applying for acceptance at a vet school should indicate to them that it's not a fast way to make big bucks.  Some follow their parents or another relative into practice and they usually make out better faster.

IMO there really isn't much a good honest vet can do to stop the bad stuff from happening.  some are just as disgusted as we are. They are not unlike humans doctors who rarely critisize or condemn  their own. It's one of those unwritten codes and the invislbe line no vet ever corsses over. In the end it's up to the owner to find out which vets are the best in the area by talking to those who use them, breeders that is, not pet people. If you do your homework you will find a vet you will like and trust. Just don't put too much importance on a state-of-the-art clinic unless you are willing to pay higher fees and maybe get talked into having unneeded tests done on your dog. 

I can't imagine how most small animal vets have any non-paying customers since you con't get your dog through the door without a huge deposit and you don't get it out without paying the balance in full. Most of the vets who get screwed on bills are the ones who do large animals and 30% sounds a little high to me. I'd have to see tthe details to believe them.

The non-payment issue is why most vets now insist on payment up front; however, since most vets are very kind, if an owner can't pay they usually set up a payment plan and it's there they often get stiffed.  It's very sad that they have been burnt before so that now they're being called callous because they won't do that anymore.  I'll have to ask my vet about it.  The 30% figure was out of Penn and may have been equine, I can't remember.  It was actually 33%, I think. 

I've had done both cancer surgery on a dog and colic surgery on a horse (two different hospitals) and the vets allowed me to pay over time.  Took several YEARS to pay off the horse but that's the only way I could have afforded it.

My vet has you sign a release if you don't want pre-surg bloodwork.  Fair enough.  But it's not all "simple" surgeries anymore.  Vets see many more older animals in for procedures - higher risk of more problematic underlying conditions.  Also even younger animals are FAT in the U.S.  When I was growing up you didn't see obese dogs running around.  Now almost everything in the waiting room is wheezing and really overweight (pets, I mean - no comment about the owners!).

I must have used less kinder vets than yours, Tessa. I've never been granted terms even for chemo and HAD to either pay up front or too bad, that's the end of that dog. Thanks to credit cards, I was able to treat my favorite dog for lymphosarcoma. That was an oncologist and I got the same upfront news from the soft tissue surgeon and the allergist.  Before we schedule your dog, how will you be paying? We require full payment at the completion of each treatment.

To be fair, the vet isn't always the final word about payment especially in the larger group practices. Often the techs have more say than the vets where payments are concerned and whether or not the vet will see the dog and when. It's good to know there are still some veterinary practices around who are willing to make consolations and allow their patients to schedule payments.

I can believe that an equine practice could get stiffed 33% of the time. One of the vets I worked for got stuck more than once. Mostly it was the trainers doing the race horse layups  who would disappear with the horses in the middle of the night leaving behind unpaid invoices. The race horse industry is another can of worms.

Yeah, looks like I've been really lucky in my vets!  Although I have to say that the horse was at Univ. of Pennsylvania's New Bolton Center.  It was my one (and I hope only!) experience with them and I was apprehensive, but little ol' me and my horse were treated with so much kindness.  The hospital was up front with me about the cost and willing to work with me and we were certainly treated exactly the same as the other people there who I knew had big big bucks to spend on their horses.

Sorry to get off-topic a little, but it just goes to show how impressions stick with you.  The poor folks who have been ripped off bash all the vets, and people like me who have seen them go the extra mile when it wasn't to their advantage tend to think that most all vets are wonderful and want to stick up for them.

I have an excellent vet (clinic has bells and whistles--a "mixed" practice). In 10/07, I had a minor mass removed from my dog's face. I said not to send it to pathology and requested no pre-op bloodwork. Nevertheless, these were the charges before my 15% discount:

Office visit--$41, Propofol/Isoflurane--$111.20, Mass removal-$73, suture--$9.50, O.R. set-up--$15--Half Day Hospitalizaion--$15, IV catheter--33.60, IV fluids--$22.90, Hydromorphone--$18.50. Subtotal: $339.70.

No antibiotic injection was give during surgery and no oral antibiotics were dispensed, because I had my own oral Cephalexin before and after surgery.

Nevertheless, all of this seems pretty expensive to me. Why was there a charge for the office visit since I brought the dog to the clinic for surgery--not for an exam. The other odds-and--in's had a tremendous mark-up. Guess this pays for the digital xay machine, ultrasound, and other high tech stuff that was not required for my dog. No, I'm sure that I could have asked to be billed and for extended payments--but didn't.

A few years ago, my old (now deceased) vet at another clinic would have charged ~$100-150 for the same procedure.

When I was a kid pets didn't get IV fluids and catheters.  Or pain meds (hyrdromorphone).  They were put under, operated on, and woke up.  It would probably be considered unethical to do that today.  That's $75.00 extra dollars right there.

"A few years ago" your vet was probably paying his techs $3.00/hour.  If he even had techs.  And he probably went to vet school when it didn't cost much money to go.  Within the past 7 years the cost has more than doubled.  My vets, who are relatively young, cannot fathom paying $30-50,000 per year for a minimum of 4 years to become a vet (PLUS your bill from 4 years of undergrad if you had to borrow to go there).  Who can afford that?  But you can't be a vet without paying that much money.  Since there are so few schools and it's so hard to get in, most of the students have to pay out-of-state tuition because half the states don't have vet schools.

So, what should they do?  Not become vets?  Which apparently has been happening as at least in large animal there's a shortage (large animal pays much less than cats & dogs).  So one day there'll be a terrible vet shortage and we'll have to pay even more.

"A few years ago" I was paying much less for EVERYTHING.

Thanks Louise for another good thread,
Our world has changed.  The days of trusting that your vet, mechanic, window installer, etc. etc. is going to do a fair and honest job for a reasonable price are gone.  Not all vets, mechanics, window installers etc. are going to gauge you, however the possibility of this happening today are greater. 

Vets,like some other professions have us caught in the middle.  Because many now consider their pets as children have created a whole new business venture for those that wish to exploit this.  You can take that any where.  The greater the necessity the greater the need and willingness to pay for it.  Many vets that did not grow up with old school values now see an opportunity to take advantage of the  mother or father of  poor fido.  I personally have seen this too many times.  This is not to put vets into a class of thieves, but just to point out that it seems to be human nature today to get all you can.  Any business is prone to falling into the same trap.

The only real thing that can be done to protect the consumer is to #1  shop around and find a vet that is old school honest, hard days work for a fair wage type thinking.  #2  Check around for other prices for the same type of work.  ( I do this with every major job I need done, and am amazed at the differences in prices, with no difference in the end product)  #3  I always go back to the vet, mechanic, window installer etc. with the quotes I received and ask  them to explain how their figures came out 210% higher for the same identical servfice. #4  and lastly, I let every one I know what my experience was with this business/person and always share the ones that I have been dealt fairly with. 

It does not take rocket science to know when you are being gauged.  This is common practice today in many professions and  vets just being one.  Sadly it puts all vets in the same bag and this is not fair either.

Do your homework, dot your I's and cross your t's and always get second or third opinions.  Learn to do some research yourself so you will not contribute to these unethical scams.  When all of the testing starts and the money starts adding up open your eyes and investigate if it is really necessary.
 

Glad they did a story on what we all know and have experienced.  I actually changed vets this year because I was tired of the sales pitch for everything my dogs NEEDED...last year my dog split a nail pretty far down during training...my vet sold my husband a 100ct bottle of iron tablets!  They said he NEEDED it to make his nails stronger.