WHAT TO DO WHEN ANIMAL CONTROL COMES KNOCKING - Page 3

well, poop. i guess the lesson here is to be friendly and open and to know your rights!!! thanks for this info and i hope your "silly old girl" is fine. i guess i'm lucky here in my little neighborhood. angus is such a big sweet doofus and claire such a good smartie, that we don't get probs from our neighbors. yet. anyway, its good info for us all. i do have to say that most of the ac people i've met have been pretty nice. and alot of them are partial to pits! so gsds are pretty easy for them . i am amazed at the attitudes of some "types" of animal or law enforcement. i believe most are good decent people, but get a "hard ass", and, it appears life can suck for awhile. we should all be aware of our rights wherever we live. and make sure we don't lose them!

Don't get too comfortable, anyone, many dog owners have lived in dog-friendly neighborhoods until a dog hater moves in and then it's hell to pay regardless if the dog/s are social or not.   They see a GSD and that's that and all they remember is how they were bitten by one as a kid or how the neighbor's GSD ripped up the mailman. All it often takes is one bark or for a dog to accidentally get out of their enclosure.

How about the rescue in Louise's area who had the misfortune of some of their rescues getting lose, they were shot on sight and killed by the same  local morons who caused Louise's problems. They later returned, broke into the house and confiscated  her private dogs,  took them to the pound and rehomed them.

Dog owners have no rights in many areas of the US, California being one the worst states in which to breed dogs, and it's only going to get worse. Those with mulitple dogs may as well face the facts - if you want to continue to breed, train, rescue or whatever, you'd better plan ahead to move to some remote location in the middle of nowhere where there are no close neighbors. The one thing you never want the neightbors to see is Schutzhund training and don't ever tell any of them if your dog is titled with anything but a CGC.

I'm glad I am a pet owner now, the road ahead for dog breeders  is not going to be a happy one so you'd better learn your rights and be prepared to enforce them. If you think all the local dog law people are animal lovers who appreciate being treated like humans, dream on. You need to get to know them for what they are and act accordingly. To quote Carol King, "You can't talk to a man with a shotgun in his hand".

Sing it, Blitz my friend, well said!  Louise thanks for posting - everyone needs to be aware of their rights.  Unfortunately I too have come up against an ACO who felt his manhood threatened when up against the truth.  Luckily he was just the bad apple,  the other ACOs didn't like him either!

Now Big Jim the chief stood for law and order
He called for the men to surround the border
And from his bulldog mouth
As the pose headed south
Came a cry, "we got the right to clean up the streets for our wives and our daughters"
You can't talk to a man when he don't wanna understand
And he don't wanna understand

A job is a job.  A city/county job, most often union and with benefits, is a better job.

I've met too many of that mentality to believe that all are animal lovers.  I've met many others who are animal lovers and go out of their way to help.

Some years ago we had a neighbor whose GSD hung himself on a chain link fence by the choke chain collar he was wearing.   Very sad.

The A/C officer who came to check on the dog also "checked" to see if it was alive first by kicking it in the ribs.  No response.  Yes, the dog was clearly dead.  In front of everyone, he removed the dog by stabbing it with a pitchfork, propping the handle up in the ground and bracing it with his foot so that it raised the dog's body high enough that he could unhook the choke chain collar from the chain link fence.  He then carried the dog out to his truck via the pitchfork over his shoulder.  What a sight for all of us neighbors and the few young children that were out to witness.

That was quite a few years ago in Los Angeles County, but I've never forgotten it.  That "picture" has stuck in my mind ever since. 

I've seen others like him since.

Don't just assume that because they are A/C officers or officials, they love dogs.  That's not always the case and is a big reason there are "volunteers" who work with A/C impounded dogs and cats.

Fortunately, I have a good relationship with animal control and local law enforcement here. Have had in every place I've lived. AC officer and cops alike have been here just to hang out and spend time with my dogs, always compliment me on the condition of my dogs and the cleanliness of my kennels. The building code inspector is a good friend of ours too. There HAD to be SOMETHING good about living in the sticks!

SS

I agree that we, as citizens, must be 100% aware and vigilant concerning our rights in such situations. Louise covered the few and basic tenents against self-incrimination. Funny though, as I found myself in a sticky situation with law enforcement two (2) days ago when I helped a friend move his personal belongings from a rented storage area to a new storage area across town. I did not realize he had a serious dispute with the landlord concerning undocumented rental payment.

He and I went to the storage area with my pickup and flatbed trailer, and he removed his lock from the door. We proceeded to load his belongings on my trailer and were nearly finished when the landlord arrived. The landlord declared "you are stealing my stuff." To that my friend replied "it's my stuff-not your's." The landlord stated that when his rent was in arrears for sixty (60) days that he (the landlord) owned everything in the rented space. He looked at me and asked if the truck was mine, and I said nothing. He stated, "so this is the truck that is stealing my stuff" and recorded my license plate number. He stated that he would call the police. He stated that "we" broke his (landlord's) lock from the door. I raised my hand to indicate to my friend to say nothing, as we had not done such a thing.

I returned to what I had been doing-securing the load on the trailer. My friend wanted to leave and avoid any confrontation with the police, but I asked him to remain calm, and advised that we should wait. I had done nothing illegal, and to my knowledge neither had he. The police arrived and blocked my truck. I stopped my work, greeted them, then backed a few steps away and remained silent while my friend spoke with them about the dispute. Remember, so far this is a civil matter, and not a criminal matter. The police acknowledged this as well.

It took more than one (1) hour for the investigation, as the landlord could not produce a written ledger and any notice of action due to owed rent. In the end, there was a supervised negotiation whereas the amount money "owed" was split and the payment was made without further confrontation. One (1) policeman asked me to walk with him out of earshot of the others and asked to identify myself-which I did. The only question he asked concerned the presence of the landlord's lock, which was not there when I arrived.

Quite some time after the dispute was settled, my friend laughed and told someone "hey man, you should have seen Robert-man, he knows the routine." "The cops were walking towards us, and Robert turns towards them, stands straight, raises his arms just a bit, opens his hands and told them hello." Yes, I do know my rights, and I do know the "routine" I guess. My goal was to finish the day without wearing the fashion accessory known as handcuffs. So, the story had a successful ending I guess.

So, in short: you should identify yourself then remain calm, civil, silent, and allow no access or prying eyes unless a warrant is presented, and then only access for the area described in the warrant.

Regards,

Bob-O

Wow, nice friend - asks for your help but doesn't bother giving you little things like the pertinent details.  I'm reminded of the line from Cool Hand Luke, "What we have here is a failure to communicate".    Your friend was lucky to have someone with a cool head there.  The outcome surely would have been different if you had left as your friend had wanted to do!

I want to reiterate that what little interaction I have had with LEOs and ACOs has almost entirely been positive.  I think the reason I remember the bad is because it shakes me to my core - scares me - when someone with authority abuses that power, because I think they are in the position to effect my life in a negative way if they so choose.  I also feel a lot of disdain for someone who is a little too happy with a little authority, sort of the hall monitor attitude,  so it definitely stirs some powerful emotions in me at least. 

The best weapon and defense is knowledge of your rights - as well as a calm and courteous demeanor.

Fiona - That's awful.  When I was a kid I came across a cat that had been hit by a car in the street.  I stayed with the cat while my friend went and had her mom call animal control.  When the guy got there he picked up the still living cat and threw it into the ravine next to the street.   I guess he figured no one would believe a kid - and he was right.

When I read about the way some  animal control  employees respond to situations like the ones descibed here, I can only think that the dog world had better find a way to get on the same page and figure out a way to fight back. 

In California, I would never tell a a "non-dog-person" that my dogs are schutzhund trained/titled. My sister has heard gossipy neighbors saying that my dogs are "attack trained".  BS!! It's like in the military, "don's ask--don't tell".

At best, I would say that they are "search and rescue" dogs with extensive obedience training.

Fortunately, my titled males also function as their old mom's very credible "assistance dogs" and are exemplary representatives for the breed in public places and during our travels. Both they and I are protected from questioning and harrassment by the Americans with Disabilites Act. Yes, not that it's anyone's business, I did retire on full disability in 1994.

As for future dealings with certain, clearly unfriendly Humane Animal Services officers, I will refrain from any of their prying questions, cavalier attiudes, and will request my right to consult with my attorney.

Yes, I will say that the people who work at the shelter appear to genuinely care about animals and want to make a positive difference in their lives. The employees (at least, the female ones without macho, authority issues) told me that had they been in my position, they would never have let an ACO seize one of their dogs.

BTW, I will be working off my impound/boarding fees in exchange for "community service" hours (at minimum wages) at the shelter. This option was not offered to me--I had to ask for it! However, this doesn't begin to pay for my attorney or for the hearing expenses.