breeders and schutzhund - Page 3

Everyone has already made points that I would've made so let me just point out one more thing- there is a difference, unfortunately, between sending a dog away to be TRAINED and sending a dog away to be TITLED. They are sadly not always synonymous.

I think training your own breeding stock is imperative to fully understanding the subtle nuances of tempermant and personality you are producing. I live in a hotbed for "schutzhund/K9" (both real and fake) breeders and I cannot tell you how many dogs I see poorly placed in the wrong home because the breeder does not fully understand what they are selling to people. Or maybe they just don't care, I'm sure that's the case quite often.

Hi Mystere,

First, let me say thank you Mystere for putting some thought into my sitation.  I appreciate it very much.

>>Veronica, what about working/training/titling one of your BHOT prospects and the Sch III that can you can learn from, and sending one potential BHOT out? Or, train the other BHOT at a different club in your area? Aren't there 2 USA clubs in Anchorage? If they have different training days (and I realize that there is only a 50/50 chance of that, at best), wouldn't that be "do-able"?<<

About sending out, I have had WONDERFUL experiences, mediocre experiences, and AWFUL experiences sending dogs out to be trained.  I am finding that with the help of the members of my very experienced and kind club members, my training is better than some trainers who take money for their training, even though I sometimes still have two left feet when training, and only having put a BH on one of my dogs thus far.  Other trainers I have used or who have titled the dogs I purchased could just blow me out of the water with their skills and experience, of course.

Sending a dog out to be trained to the SchH1 is very expensive, when considering actual training costs plus hidden costs.  There are all the risks involved in doing that also to consider.

Both clubs in our area have a sort of unwritten policy that you will not train with the other club.  This is because the clubs feel it is hard enough for a person to make training consistently with even one club let alone two: my club trains 2 times a week in winter, 3 times a week in summer.  My club does allow me to bring any two dogs for a training session that I want.  My (great!) club does not have a restriction on specific dogs being my regular training dogs, only that, in consideration to other club members, I not bring more than two dogs to a training session.  So perhaps I can work it that way. 

Breed for what the the GSD is supposed to be.  Use Schutzhund as a test to determine if the dogs are breed worthy. 

Dont breed for sport or show.

Don Corleon you are right if you can see the progeny then that helps also. The thing that I have noticed about people is that they think titles means quality. I personally love to train dogs for the real world, and do sch for FUN. Instead of looking for titles people need to learn more about the pedegree itself. Does the lines they are looking for produce strong dogs with handler aggression, or great fight drive with no handler aggression. The lines are the first step and then you need to go from their. For PSA, Police and so on you need the REAL dogs, for sport you need the sport lines. Purchase the lines for the event.

Mystere, you must be talking about my personal yard moose, Ms. Moose, which I have pictures of on my website. That 1200 pound SNOT charged me a couple of weeks ago.  It was first thing in the morning...when I needed to take my dogs in the house out for their morning potty...but there on the other side of the wind-down birch, which is only 18 feet from the side of my house, stood my four legged nemesis eatting the twig ends of the tree.  I did what usually worked-- I stood on the porch and banged a pan with a metal spoon.  Ms. Moose looked at me blankly and kept on munching birch tree.  I walked on out a little ways, with the downed tree between us, and banged the pot again... ummm....and threw a rolled newspaper at her too.  She lowered her head, laid back her ears, wrinkled up her nostrils and started charging around the birch tree.  I yelled "Oh S***!" threw my pan at her and ran.  Fortunately for me, she stopped just short of coming around the birch tree, satisfied that she'd shown me "what for".  I made it to the house alive.  She decided to wander away a little further, and then I went out and banged a pan at her again (closer to the house).  She decided to slowly leave the yard area since I was being such a bother, and I guess she was afraid I'd hit her with my pan if I got enough throwing practice. 

For PSA, Police and so on you need the REAL dogs, for sport you need the sport lines. Purchase the lines for the event.

I disagree Eisen Faust  ,maybe I misunderstood your statement   if so then disregard the following

 In one litter  a breeder can achieve  Schutzhund and law enforcement dogs  . the pup sold for schutzhund does not make him automaticly a  non -real dog   nor does his litter mate sold as  a PD dog make it automatic a real dog.  Genetics are the same  and training enhances the genetics  some bring out more of one then the other . such as  civil aggression  is brought out more  for personal protection or PD dog  use . 

Versatility seems to be the thing some breeding programs do forget

I personally never bring out the aggression in my dogs off the field , I know when they have it no need to feed into it . 

I had (Astor Denar )  and now have also a so called sport dog ( Eon Löwenhof ) well I would not recommend anyone getting a bit fresch with me < smile > shot forgot about my bitches Elly and Britt  :)) Some lines yes are lacking in the natrual GSD aggression    I had such a dog   Eva vom Haus Bachfeld  100% prey.   Aggression  or suspicion was not in her vocabulary :)) Was she a bad female no by no means but lacked in those 2 componens    in her credit   she has 1 son Brevet Ringsport Champion ,1 daughter regional and national Universal Siegerin  including a 3rd place at Regional championship  , 3 grand -sons on the PD  and 1 on the SWAT team , 3 grand-sons in Schutzhund and also very loyal clear headed family and AKC obedience dogs.  

Again  it comes down to knowledge of the bloodline a breeder is putting together  . Believe me I have not mastered it  always seeking :))

Titles  earned     are proof that the dog  fullfilled the test requirements .AS for  untitled dogs  someone can tell me all day long the dog  could make schh1-3  or can serve  as a service dog ,  if it does not    who is to say it can ?? The owner ???

Always remember without working dog tests to keep the GSD afloat  to continue having workable dogs in all venues including law enforcement !~! The GSD working ability will dwindle to nothing . The perfect example is the AKC no requirement for breeding are set   and we all know where that leads us   !!

Pia