Trimming hair, taping ears,Whats the difference? - Page 3

LOL what ever AIR. We hear them from people at the dog shows too, lol. EVEN GSD breeders what to know where I got him from and let me know how great looking he is!!!!!!!! And they do not get mad when he beats them in the ring either! Like I'm sure most of the people here would!

You know what SW, you really need to stop. What is it that you think you are "defending"? If you really think the legitimate breeders who talk to you and ask you about your dog are being anything more than polite you are deluding yourself. You have said on more than one occasion in the past year that you are going to breed your dog regardless of what anyone thinks. Of course you can do what you want, and rationalize it any way you want, but understand people here are not going to tell you just what you want to hear.

I am not saying your dog is not beautiful, or does not do well in the ring SW, so I don't know why you are getting so defensive. But I also think they the breeders who ask where you got your dog from are just being nosey. Do you really think they will say, gosh your dog is an ugly long coat, where did you get him? No.

You folks with a mission (to justify cosmetically altering the appearance of LC's for show purposes) tend to be speaking from personal opinions/prejudices rather than from factual knowledge. There can be a great difference. Whereas the LC factor is always genetic, ears that are slow to become erect are very often due to environment. Let me give you a few scenarios: (1) Erection of ears on growing pups may be hampered by excess weight on the ears. I have taken the ears of pups and simply shaved (with an electric clipper and a #40 surgical blade) the ears and seen the ears spring to attention (and never require taping). This procedure is especially effective with the ears of LC's. (2) There are husbandry problems affecting the ears when pups are kept crated excessively. The pups may not be able to fully raise their ears due to the height of crates. They tend to sleep/rest with their ears/heads wedged against the side of a crate or into a crate corner. Such pups may lack the mental stimulation to become sufficiently alert to raise their ears. (3) Seasonal differences have an impact of the erection of ears. If pups spend a lot of time outdoors during rainy winter months, their wet ears become weighed down by moisture. There are further consequences when the wet pups are brought indoors during the evening and thrown into crates. (4) During the cold winter months (without excessive moisture), there is a peripheral vasoconstriction of the ears in order to prevent to cooling of the blood in the ears (a mechanism used by elephants during the heat). Envionmental changes that promote the removal of the weight (created by vasodilation) will promote the erection of ears. Annecdotal evidence: I bred an Am-bred female (with very tall ears) to a German stud for 3 litters and had slow ears in 2 of the litters. Finally, when a litter of 7 pups (born during February) persisted in crawling out of their box and creating wall-to-wall filthy newpapers in the large bathroom attached to my bedroom, I had my fill of the messy little monsters. I opened the sliding glass door to my bedroom and threw the 4-week-old kids (and mom) out onto the enclosed, covered deck during during the frosty March weather. I placed plenty of fleece pads and a heat lamp for their warmth--but, no, the pups eschewed warmth/comfort and chose to "dog-pile" on the cold redwood deck. The offshot of this envionmental change was that every pup in this litter had erect ears at 6 weeks. (5) Ears are stimulated to become erect through the development of hundreds of muscles in their heads produced through chewing raw, meaty bones. I could list more examples of the effects of environment on ears--but, I've given you some excellent illustrations.

Louise, I agree. I have only had to tape one ear from one dog over the years and that was long before I learned about the crap and chemicals and poisons that are in most all dog foods. Since feeding raw, homemade food I've had no ear issues. I think environment and nutrition are more detrimental in ears as opposed to just assuming it's genetic and removing an otherwise promising prospect from a breeding program. I think that if the ears are truly weak or bad due to "genetics" then no amount of taping will work anyway and in that case I agree they shouldn't be bred. But, more likely, it is going to be nutritional or environmental that is the cause, especially if there's no known problems in the pedigree, in which case, tape the ear and look at the diet and the environment, to rule that out.

Palestar, I welcome hearing of someone's experience from a longitudinal perspective--rather than biased remarks for people with a LC "pet" or two. Heavens, if someone were to show in a breed show a LC that I bred or one sired by one of my males, I would be appalled and infuriated. However, hopefully, it would not be one with oversize or issues of hotspots/allergies! Now, I can appreciate why breeders sell "pets" with limited registrations....

louise, someday, hopefully many years from now, when i'm looking for another gsd puppy, i'm going to get out every post you've made or responded to and study them intently. i love the long coats, i have one and he's beautiful, but would not breed him. others can do as they please,but there is a "standard". i really like the look of the lcs. BUT, i also really love the look of a nice standard gsd. and i think you have an amazing wealth of knowledge about these dogs. next time around, i'll be a much better gsd buyer and owner. altho, i can't guarantee i wont get another lc! but, hey, i'm a PET owner and happy to be just that. thank you again for all the info you gave me before, and, i think that people will learn so much from you whether you like lcs or not. you stick to your guns every time. shepherd woman, i think your dog is very good looking and it's good for him and you to pursue your dreams. but, remember, the long coats are not now "acceptable" to the standards. it doesn't mean they are crappy beasts. they are great dogs, but maybe, if we admire this breed so much, we should try to adhere to the standards? just saying......:)

A few of the points I have been trying to make are that: 1. Incorrect movement is FAR worse than a few stray tufts of hair, yet overangulated dogs are shown, win, and are bred on a regular basis. 2. Taping ears is IMO altering the appearance of the dog yet is done all the time with no one batting an eye. 3. With the limited gene pool, (a pool badly in need of chlorine IMHO,) that exists it would seem to not be a good thing to automaticly eliminate dogs exhibiting otherwise excellent qualities from breeding. We ahould look at the whole dog and not just one aspect. Blitz my friend, I never mentioned the word fair. Anyone who expects life to be fair has been living in a bubble LOL.

ProudShepherdPoppa, I think we are talking to walls, lol. Just like they SAY they are talking to walls! We have some on here that will NOT be wrong, the way it looks. Have a great New Years : - }

I think there is a fundamental difference between excluding an exceptional working dog, with incredible structure and health, who happens to have a coat from the gene pool than just another pretty show dog who quite possibly has no working abilty. I am sorry "does not bite the judge" is not an adequate test of temperament (nor is a CGC or TDI) Does a dog with sport titles have working ability - maybe, maybe not but at least something about the temperament and drives are evaluated. I don't know how much pressure is really put on a dog to get a Schutzhund III, vs. say ring. But standards are how breeds are defined. I think we would all be ahead of the game if people looked at them as minimum black and white requriements, and always strove to exceed them. I do think from looking at various working breeds that have NOT been corrupted by pretty dog shows that the standards as to conformation, coat, etc. are much looser than they are with breeds that are primarily show dogs. So I am open minded about people who want to change the standard, but my own personal experience is I do not want to fool with all that hair for a dog that is out working in the elemnets a lot so I do have a hard time seeing the utility of a coat. By the same token, there is a large pool of GSDs that meet the standards so maybe that is not a problem narrowing them down with a breed with a large population as there is with one with a smaller one. Shepherd Woman, it is nice to think your dog would defend you. How do you really know that he would not tuck tail and run in a real challenge? He is showlines through and through and has not been bred for real work. He appears to have allergy problems, not sure about his temperament - attacking another dog on a temperament test could be a sign of a fearful dog.