Steroids Used when Showing Dogs? - Page 3

Is it the social stigma, or that working and showing should be used to determine breeding quality.  I know it doesn't help the breed if dog A can no longer gait by age 6 naturally, but with the help of some roid's he can, or that working dog B is physically unable to jump by age 5 but with roids and drugs he feels well enough to do it.  I don't see how that helps anyone, but their f'ing owners ego.  But why should that matter, there's enough people doing other crazy stuff to appease themselves.

Christopher,  Great reply! I'm very impressed.

Its true that AAS such as Anavar are used for children with growth problems, AIDS related diseases, Wasting diseases and recovering  burn victims, etc.  Now while its true these subjects may be sedentary, they are stll being torn down not by exercise, but by injury and or disease. 

The truth is, I know of no study that has ever been done regarding a healthy subject who was somewhat sedentary, yet was administered AAS.  AAS work best to rebuild what is damaged. That damage can be a result of exercise or negative causes as well. I can still remember when I was in College, coming home. My Grandmother was in her late 80's and lived with my parents. There was some prescription bottles on the kitchen table. I checked them out and I Freaked lol. My grandma's Doctor had put her on the very same Dianabol I was taking lol.

You are right on target about the feeling of well being. As I stated earlier each steroid has a different Anabolic(Muscle Building) strength, and a different Androgenic(Masculinizing) strength. It is this feeling of well being that causes many athletes and bodybuilers to stay on for periods much longer than they should.

Earlier I posted about the old Cheque Drops put out by Upjohn. All DVM's had these. Cheque Drops kept a bitch from coming into season, but would allow the bitch to come in when the treatment stopped. Cheque Drops had no muscle building abilities, but a drop or 2 on the tongue cause their very powerful Androgenic strength to immediately hit the subject and the feeling was remarkable. Powerlifters use to use them in Meets, just before they attempted a heavy lift. It is rumored that Tyson was given some right before he bit Holyfield's ear off.

zdog wrote: Is it the social stigma, or that working and showing should be used to determine breeding quality.  I know it doesn't help the breed if dog A can no longer gait by age 6 naturally, but with the help of some roid's he can, or that working dog B is physically unable to jump by age 5 but with roids and drugs he feels well enough to do it.  I don't see how that helps anyone, but their f'ing owners ego.  But why should that matter, there's enough people doing other crazy stuff to appease themselves.

Christopher writes: Did you really not see where I said ethical use? I wouldn't recommend it for the reasons you wrote about. But what about the dog that get's hit by a car and has to be laid up for several months? Shouldn't the dog be given everything we can for a quick and full recovery? If a dog is past his working career and is in pain due to injuries should we just let him suffer?

Further, your idea of "helping the breed", although noble in feeling, is lacking in logic. If we didn't vaccinate our dogs the ones with weak immune systems would soon be gone but the ones with the stronger immune systems would live. Thus making the breed stronger. So will you stop vaccinating your dogs to "help" the breed? I hope not. The same holds true for many of the medical interventions that we make on behalf of our dogs. The breed get's weaker with every c-section, antibiotic and flea treatment given. We don't rail against those because they have no social stigma. In fact not doing those things has a social stigma. So I do believe that the only reason that steroids are not used more in our dogs is due to a negative social stigma.

I don't vaccinate except for rabies, call me what you will, i'm well aware of the social stigma and deal with it.

Ethical uses, yes, using to prolong a career or make it perform better than it would without. No thanks.  I'd like to be able to trust that the 11 year old male is working because he can, not because he's drugged to feel no pain, and is taking roids to recover.  But this thread is about using steroids to help a dogs performance, not because of getting hit by a car.

So then we are in agreement so far.

I'm glad you feel comfortable enough to set the bounds of the discussion, but why not discuss a subject in it’s entirety? To have a reasonable conversation on this subject, I believe that you have to talk about the ethical uses and unethical. The lines between the two blur very often. For example, if my dog just gets off of an anabolic cycle, due to an injury, should I be able to show him? If your answer is no, how long should I have to wait? Each anabolic is different, should there be different rules for each one?

We can discuss the full range, I was just clarifying that my comments were based on the original topic, or what I interpretted it to be anyway.

I guess if a dog was injured to the point that he/she couldn't perform without the use of med's to recover after such a performance, I think that dog should probably be retired from competing.  If that injury was from something traumatic (hit by car) it wouldn't weigh on any decisions I made too much.  If its from something that limits its career that is normal wear and tear, I would think it has weaker genetics, maybe it doesn't, but I think that way anyway.

If it was my dog that was just on a cycle to recover from an injury, I guess the dog would have to show me that it could do all the work without soreness, or needing more because of re-injury.  Most injuries are that I see happen just need some time and rest to heal, nothing I would even consider steroids for.

I don't know about the rules for each one, as I don't think they should be allowed at all.  (except in extreme circumstances) and when those situations arise, i'm thinking any dog I would resort to using anabolics with, would be injured to the point I probably wouldn't continue pushing them to perform. 

If someone were to use them for injury and still wanted to perform, I don't know how long after, I'd say a few months at least.  I would want to be sure that everything was healed, is not re-injured etc.  I don't think 6 months Anabolic free would be too tough to sit thru.

This has turned into a very good discussion. After reading Christopher's reply perhaps I am foolish to feel that people with Bench Show GSD's havent used Roids. We all like to feel we are a little sharper than the next person, but in the long run we all reason pretty much alike.

Everyone competitive is always looking for an edge, so why would I think it hasn't been done?

Below is a pretty good site for the net. I have posted a link to an effectiveness Chart, and below that a chart to show detection times(how long the roid stays in the body). From these links one can go to the Profile link that shows the profiles of each different roid.

http://www.steroid.com/effect.php

http://www.steroid.com/detect.php

Abhay

other than a few rough spots which were quickly smoothed over this was one of the best treads that I have read on this board.

a lot of good frank information that also pushed one to think more deeply of the ethics of the entire situation.

Since we are all individulas with different standards and different goals there is truly no right or wrong answer and everyone is entitiled to their opinion. Therefore, the best anyone can do is take the best facts one can get and draw their own conclusions.

I thank everyone for their input.

I personally take HCG and HGH under a doctor's supervision as part of a anti aging and better quality of life program.

also, I am at 57 still a amature  kickboxer and black belt  Karate figher and fight quite often in Taiwan where I live.

It takes a lot of hard work and conditioning to be able to go 3-3 minuite rounds of full contact karate or kick boxing so this additonal help has definitly improved my conditioning and stamina even at my age.

Presently there are no fighers left in my age bracket where I live so I fight the younger ones which is also a lot of fun.

So, anything done intelligently and under proper supervision can be acceptable if it helps you meet the goals you set for yourself , also as along as you are not cheating in a game or huting someone else in the process.

If at a point in time anti aging teratments will help my dogs after they are finished with their official competing years then I would also give it to them if it imporves the quality of their life and if I can afford it at that time.

anyway, no answer to any question. Just hope everyone is safe and compassionate to their Dogs and live a happy and satisfying life !

Jeffrey

Jeffrey, Much Props to you!  You Sir are a STUD!  I have recently been thinking of trying some HGH myself.  This news article regarding Sly Stallon's arrest in Oz doesn't lie when it says,,,,,,,,that HGH reduces body fat, boosts muscle mass, improves sexual prowess and regenerates major organs. All very positive, especially in a world with increasing rates of obesity, cancers, asthma, sexual dysfunction etc etc

Did you see the movie "Rocky Balboa"? Not exactly a Classic, but Sly at 60yrs old, what a Body!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6675305.stm

One point that seems to be missed

Generally people who show dogs also breed their dogs too. 

Prolonged use of anabolic steroids can cause a shutdown in sperm production and can severly disrupt the female reproductive cycle which would be detrimental to a breeders plans. 

Also I cannot see any point whatsoever in administering  AAS to canines. A good diet good training and adequate rest will provide a sufficient physique and level of athletisism for any dog at any level.

DANOLI