Anyone have experience with Katzenblut shepherds? Hips? - Page 3

Harsh!  It seems she's trying to avoid you.  I wonder why...

Forget about getting her to acknowledge a faulty pup.  That's clearly not her style.  Furthermore, I wouldn't take any so-called advice that she has to give. 

It sounds like you're off to a good start with managing your pup's HD.  You can't fix the joint, but you can certainly take steps to ensure she gets the most out of life.  Kudos to you for keeping her lean and swimming her.  Building up the muscles will help to stabilize the joint, as the hip is not properly seated.  Stick with low impact exercise.  Swimming is great for all dogs.

Don't get too carried away with supplements - feed the recommended dose.  More is not better.  Is she on a healthy diet?  Feeding her a quality diet will help her develop the solid muscle that she needs.

Best wishes!  My heart goes out to you.  I'm sorry that Shirley has claimed yet another victim with her breeding program.  Keep me posted on your girl's progress.

Yvette

I have Katzenblut's dogs and I am very pleased with them, my oldest is 8 years old is in perfect health and has worked as a therapy dog. All of  my Katzenblut dogs have (CGCs) and two also have TC through the GSDCA.  I have know Shirley for several years and she has always been fair to me.  I see that your puppy is only 7 months old and so I am assuming that you have just recently found out about her hip problem.  I know someone with a male from the same litter that your pup is from and there is no issues. Shirley is currently battling a serious illness and so if you have called her this may be the reason for no response. There are times that her office help does not pass on information so if she does not know then she can not address issues. Unfortunately, there is no breeder that can guarantee that a dog will not have HD. I know of two people with dogs from 2 other breeders (with both parents being OFA excellant) that  ended up with hip problems. It makes me sad to see that some people on this message board are ready to really "trash" breeders. I have noticed a number of other kennels that have had negative things said regarding them also.  Katzenblut's has been in business for almost 50 years and produced numerous puppies throughout the years.  Anyone can produce a bad dog.  As for the dog in shelter and the $10,000 price---that is all false. The dog got out and the owner never claimed it and this is how it ended up in shelter.  She does not even charge that kind of money for an imported titled dog. She has sold several dogs to police departments over the years. The one person on this site who was bitten admits they have never spoken to Shirley but sure has gotten a lot out of the bite. If that is the only bite that they have ever received and they handle a lot of dogs then they are pretty fortunate I would say. Puppies do not come out "fear aggressive" it is developed through poor socialization as well as owners not taking control and correcting the bad behavior at an early age.  I have seen "fear aggression" in a number of breeds including malinois, border collies, jack russells terriers and standard poodles. Fear aggression can actually be controlled or totally eliminated with the right trainer. My heart goes out to you or anyone with a dog who has a health issue.

Showline2,

Just for clarification, I DID try to contact Shirley, and she ignored me both times.  I sent her two emails on two separate occasions, the second with a "read receipt" so that I would know that she got it and opened it.

In my first email I asked her why her highly touted stud (at the time) was "Jarrod" weighing 112 lb - "verified by veteranarians scale!".  I found this a tad bit hypocritical since she also had the SV standard for GSD's on her web page, which specified a correct weight of 30 - 40 kg for a male GSD, which is 67 - 88 lbs.  In my email I asked her why she would brag about using such badly oversized stud dog since this is clearly far out of bounds for the SV standard, and yet she posts the SV standard as if it means something to her.  No response.  Go figure!

In my second email I asked her what experience she had in SchH, since in many of her litter ads (at the time), she was advertising puppies that would be suitable for SchH.  I asked her how many dogs she had trained and titled in SchH herself, and to which club she belonged, as I would have expected that she would at least have some concept of what is required for the sport.  I sent that email "read receipt" so that I could verify that she had both received and opened the email, which she did.  No response.  Go figure!

This happened several years ago so any current illness is no explanation for her silence on both these points.

I revisited her web site recently and see that Jarrod is no longer being used as stud, but she continues to use oversized dogs, in fact taking pains to point out that she is breeding a 93 lb female, for example. 

As to your opinions on fear aggression, I disagree with you to a point.  I agree that poor socialization and lack of training is a horrible combination, but I will not agree that fear aggression "can actually be controlled or totally eliminated with the right trainer".  After Katzenblut von Pooh Bear ripped my arm open and Harold sent him back, he was placed with a "professional trainer" by Shirley.  He didn't last.  The dog was deemed a threat to the family and again rejected.  If you think you can cure him, then please try to do so.  Considering that he is registered in the database, I am assuming that he is still alive and has not been PTS.  Please find the current owner and make sure the dog is no longer an active threat.

I have made myself clear that this experience is the basis of my judgement.  I have never claimed that ALL of her dogs are crap.  I would guess that if you were the one scarred for life by a Katzenblut dog then you might perhaps have a different opinion on the matter. 

A further clarification... receiving a serious bite from a fear biter is NOT a normal part of dog training.  I have been in SchH for about 7 years now and exposed to a variety of breeds at different levels of training.  I have even done helper work for my club and have never received such a serious injury as I have from this dangerous and unstable dog, and for what?  Feeding the dog some hot dog pieces.  Hardly threatening behavior.

By the way, my name is Yvette.  Yvette Woodward.  I have never hidden behind an alias and my email should be listed in my profile.  What's your name?

Yvette

Yvette:

 I appreciate your responding back. With all sincerity, we all have different opinions. If we did not the world would be pretty boring. Just like people, dogs have different temperments, different personalities. While the majority of fear bitters do not bite that intensly, there are some that can be very intense. Your description of feeding the dog and him getting you is fairly typical fear behavior. And some times this is done with no or little sign from the dog. I do not know Poor Bear personality but I am familiar with his  lines and they tend to be very intense dogs, generally not for the novice handler. I also know at times there are people that want a certain dog and it may not be the one right for them but they insists.  Could you refuse to sell, yes. In regards to training,  I have a friend who is a professional dog trainer that has had some pretty decent success with aggressive dogs. He also tends to believe that many of the dogs with these issues are  due to poor socialization and allowing for the dog to get away with bad behavior when young. For many people it is cute with the  8- 10 week old puppy is going around biting everything in site and the before you know it the dog is a 70 -80 pound dog.  Most of the aggressive dogs that he has worked with have been of the fear aggressive type and he has numerous bites over his 25 years of training (some of which have been pretty intense).  There are not a great deal of trainers out there that are real experienced in aggression (of any type). In rare cases there are dogs that have aggression due to medical condition. This could have been the problem with that particular dog. I do wish that Shirley would have responded back to you. She really is a very decent person. The large stud dog that you spoke about is actually FCI titled in conformation. The 93 lb one was actually bred by someone else in Germany. Unfortunately many Americans feel that bigger is better and were wanting the larger dogs. I have a seen a number of oversized dogs come out of Germany where they are SV registered. This seems to be especially true for the showlines and I have actually seen several ads on this website for people selling dogs due to being oversized. Anyway, I do appreciate your saying that all the dogs from Katzenblut are not crap. As, for my name, I choose to remain annonymous. Please realize that not all people that choose to remain annonymous are trying to hide from anything, they may be in a profession where it is best.

Fear biters are NEVER trained in protection, they are weak nerved and can't handle it, they are washed out.

Temperament is hereditary, and no amount of socialization can change a dog's basic temperament.   He is born with it.

I agree that fear biters should not be be trained in schutzhund. Everything need to be done to try and teach them NOT to bite.

Regarding temperament,  I  disagree to some degree. Socialization at a very young age is essential. If you leave puppies just with their littermates and no human interaction you will find that many are fear aggressive and very insecure.  I have seen this with a litter of malinois. Two pups were socialized and handled and the other 4 were not. The two that were socialized were very confident, stable dogs. The other four were very insecure, afraid of people, very nervous.   I have see (in more than one case) dogs from the exact breeding--same exact litter- with very different temperaments.  Each puppy in a litter will have a different personality, drive and sometime different temperment.

Yvette:

We just have to agree to disagree. 

In regards to socialization and Bear, I must have been mistaken, I thought that he got Bear as an adult? I do admit that I do not know that particular dog or his situation.  But I know that socialization at a young age is essential. If you want a guard dog you isolate. If you want a very social family type dog it has to be around people and other animals.  I am still wondering if that particular dog has some other issue, possibly medical?

I do stand up for a friend because a few dogs that have issues does not make one a bad breeder especially with the number of years that the kennel has been in business. Unfortunately there is no guarantee for a perfect dog 100% of the time.  I personally know 15 people with dogs from her breedings ranging from 12 years of age to 7 months. All of which are in  great health and have wonderful disposition so I speak from some personal experience with this individual rather than one experience.

As for large dogs.....I wont make excuses...everyone had their choice.  I like dogs that would be considered  medium size by SV standards  myself.

Enough said on this issue.

I wish you much luck with your dogs and your competition (I saw another message board which I believed has a picture of you(?) and one of your dogs----very beautful dog!)