HD questions - Page 3

Do Right,

Good luck telling a German that the sale is contingent on ANYTHING. At this point we do have the benefit of the ZW program, which to some extent takes the place of the painstaking research required to conclusively determine the HD genotype of our breeding stock AND that of any prospective stud. Best Wishes, Jonah

Blitzen,

I have seen the production stats of popular studs in the research data linked by Jantie. Not all data is current, but for Jeck it should be complete. The data for his progeny bear out the accuracy of the ZW for the most part.

In a perfect world each breeder would TRULY select their females for genetically clear hips based on more stringent criteria pertaining to deep, tight sockets, adequate Norberg angle, correct bone development, etc. and steer clear of males with a high ZW for lack of a more precise method of selection. Best Wishes, Jonah

AZShep, I am by no means an expert on anything (well, maybe a couple of things), but I would assume that a dog pack living on an island, or in a fish bowl, etc, would be culled by nature.  The dogs that can not hunt as well as the next dog9ie: bad hips), will be weeded out through the inability to catch the prey, etc.  So, a canine with bad hips will be weeded out by nature and over the thousands of years of nature doing this weeding out, the HD, or ED, or whatever, will completely or almost completely disappear.  At least that is how I would answer your question.  ie:  Natural Selection.

Thinking "out of the box" I might suggest that the Alpha female just "may" have the ability to sense or smell whether the potential male who is trying to mate with her or become the Alpha male, has any defects in his body.  They do use dogs to sniff out cancer, according to what I have seen on TV and read on the internet.  A wild shot, but just a thought.

DoRight, sorry to hear that your dogs didn't pass OFA. Are you going to re-xray the dog with the borderline rating? Been there too many times myself. It's always a disappointment for us, the dogs don't seem to care one way or the other .

DR &FNO,

The scent is an interesting concept.  Had not considered, but should have.

I have a strong interest in this area....sometimes I think this question is nearly like the Holy Grail for many GSD owners.

If we view an OFA report as man made natural selection, then where do each of you draw the line between line and cross breeding.  When you see a dog listed at what point do red flags go up for either too much/too little line breeding for hips and/or any other genetic problems.

I have special fondness for GSD with protection and herding titles....strong courage and good decision making....Kirschental females seem to be a good choice and when you examine their lines the hips are pretty consistent in rating and in many cases you will see an alternating pattern of SCH I and SCH III females.....(example mom SCH I, grandmother SCH III, great grandmother SCH I, etc).  I can only assume that is deliberate to maintain temp./drives in a certain range between too high and too low.

Any thoughts on this as well?

DoRIGHt:   The vet that took your xrays? Is he recommended by many to do shepherd hips...the reason I ask,,,,recently after on of my males prelimmed fair,,,friends in the two schutzhund clubs in Dallas and Seagoville, told me about a Dr. Taylor in Rockwall, and that he is ultimate in placing the dogs and getting a very good xray, and he is highly recommended., as knowing just how to not make any mistakes ,and takes the proper steps to insure your xrays are the best,,,,Im planning to take my three up there in July and my one girl in the Seagoville club gets hers done, I think tomorrow with this vet........so you might swim your kid for 6 months and re xray   with a great vet....

Yes Blitzen, I am going to get a second opinion so to speak.  My vet, who is well thought of around these parts and is almost of retirement age, "read" the x-rays and told me that in his opinion one girl would rate at least "good".  He stated that her hips looked excellent in his opinion.  She received a "good".  The second girl he said would be "probably fair", maybe below that.  She received a "moderate HD" rating.  The male, my vet thought from his reading of the x-ray, would receive a rating of "fair" or possibly "good".  The dog actually received a report of "borderline" and the OFA report states to re-submit in 6 months, so I will.

As to the female that received a rating of "moderate HD", she actually is my best working and looking dog, of the three shepherds I have.  I will not breed her with my male of course, but I have a male Rottweiler who has "good" hips and I may breed her with him, to give the pups a chance of having fair or good hips.

AZSHEP6---I'm really tired...it's midnight here.....but before I turn off the computer, I had to type.  Taking into consideration your alternating pattern of SCH1 and SCH 111 females made me think of something a vet said to me over 20 yrs ago.  He had just officially diagnosed my 6 month old pup as epileptic (grand mal).  He felt it was inherited......and said it passed from his grandfather, or grand sire.  Stuck with me. Also, saw the correlation when learned that baldness in men skips a generation. Interesting.

I have to say that the baldness in my family did not pass a generation. My father was basically bald at about 50.  I became basically bald at about 45.  My oldest son became basically bald at about 30.   At this pace, I would expect that my only (so far) grandson, will be bald at about 20 or so.  His hips received a rating of "excellent"  He gets that from me.   

Thanks Guys/Gals...

DO RIGHT :'  YOU'RE GONNA DO WHAT?  AND WHAT WILL YOU CHARGE FOR THOSE GOOD HIPPED   ......."GERMIWEILLERS.",??????   vrooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmm....  YOU are so funny and I guess you inherited your humor from your grand sire.... granpapapapa do right!!!!???