Duke....

Pick a better dog then Fero.

V Marc vom Herkulesblick

V Greif vom Herkulesblick

V Pirry vom Elfenschloß

Mink vom Haus Wittfeld his son Crok, The list goes on and on.

Dogs are getting weaker and weaker.

 

"The German Shepherd was designed to suit its main function as a shepherd, that is why its proportions are longer than tall and rear angulation is deep enough to generate maximum force needed for a long step and front is close to 90 degree in shoulder to make a maximum front reach, its total balance is designed for endurance not speed not gallop and not jump."


Ibrahim, the above comment by you is representative of single purpose breeding, which is the downfall of the breed. If you cannot understand what is wrong with that thinking, try comparing the gsd with all th e other herding breeds worldwide, the border collie for example. The BC can run circles around your ileal gsd all day every day. Look at the Belgian herding breeds, developed basically concurrently with the gsd...why do they not look like your ideal gsd?

Joanro, Ibrahim doesn't do anything with his dogs without giving it a lot of thought and planning. If and when he breeds a litter, it will be from dogs he truly believes are the real deal. His ideal dogs may not be your ideal dogs, but he does nothing without a lot of thought and study. He has a very limited pet market in Jordan, so he has to be prepared to keep most of the dogs he breeds. 

Joanro,

 

Please take what I will say with an open mind as it is not meant ill or personal, your comments, also some other's comments, make me realize that we do not agree on what a GSD is, why it was created and how it developed, what mistakes were done, what shortcomings it has today.

It is obvious that we do not agree on facts of its history, each of us has his own imagination of how it should look like, what it should be capable of doing and so on.

It is just as if there is no written standard of the breed, for looks, behavior, anatomy, utility and health. There is no common base between us to stand on and commence from there.

 

I did not invent  this

"The German Shepherd was designed to suit its main function as a shepherd, that is why its proportions are longer than tall and rear angulation is deep enough to generate maximum force needed for a long step and front is close to 90 degree in shoulder to make a maximum front reach, its total balance is designed for endurance not speed not gallop and not jump."

It is not my personal comment, it is a quote from the standard, in my simple wordings. How come you concluded it means single purpose breeding for God sake?

Paul, what is the problem with Fero? What strengths/weaknesses does he bring to the table?

DUH! Never mind...think I just answered my own question! He's the sire of the 'T' litter von Nachbarschaft! One of the people in our club has a dog with Fero (and Troll) in the pedigree, and even though they are both several generations back, and there are lots of better, more stable dogs in there, this dog constantly paces in circles when turned outside, and spins in its cage! It's got a bite like a steel trap, though...

Another dog that pops up with a great deal of frequency in working pedigrees is Greif zum Lahntal. Anyone know anything about him?

"The Belgian Sheepdog is known as the Groenendael, or Chien de Berger Beige in most parts of the world. Its origin can be traced to the late 1800's when it was listed, both in stud books and at dog shows, among many other shepherds as the Chien de Berger de Races Continentales (Continental Shepherds). By pedigree we can identify many of the Continental Shepherds not only as the Belgian Shepherds (Groenendael, Malinois, Tervuren, and Laekenois), but also as German Shepherds, Hollander Herders, Beauceron, Bouvier des Flandres, and Briards."

Ibrahim, of those dogs listed, how many have been single purposely bred to extreme and become non functioning working dogs world wide ? And I am speaking of world wide, not just AKC shows.

Blitzen, it doesn't matter what an individuals "ideal" happens to be, it's what the ideal for the breed is supposed to be, without distortion of interpretation and rationalizing inadequacies.

 Grief z Lahntal ; I only know what I have heard from people who knew him. I was told he was a strong nerved dog who did not work in trials remarkably. He was owned by a ''normal'' sport person who was frustrated by the dog's average accomplishments. He was place for sale and A Hahn bought the dog because he saw the strength of the pedigree for his females. This is third hand information but it always make me wonder how many top genetic dogs never get used because they are not marketed better or ever reach the attention of breeders. Or worse how many top dogs are ruined by poor training. I think there are more top dogs who never see the ''light of day'' [ market] than there are top trainer/handlers makeing lesser animals look like ''tigers'' 

It's what the individual INTERPRETATION  of the breed ideal is. Don't we all think our interpretation is the correct one? I'm not going to argue over this,to each his own. I don't breed GSD's, never will, and I haven't  had any problem at all finding a dog that suits my purposes. It is what it is and there will never be a middle ground for most GSD people. It's either their way or the highway. I have no right to tell any one here to not breed GSD's unless they do it my way or to critisize anyone for not doing it "my way". Anyone who wants a GSD can find one to suit their needs. If they can't, they are not taking the time to do their homework.

if you believa all stories of oldtimers, ferro should be responsibel for genetic full calm grip, look at the video again please, in stories the dogs of the past were allways better and stronger, but in all videos we see we never see that, also in KNPV they sing the same song, look at old KNPV videos full of poor bites and weak dogs

if one is willing to look past the podiumdogs there are lots of strong dogs in different breeds,

I was at the KNPV championships  a couple of months ago, same story, you see the dogs that are trainable and score points, you dont see the bad asses there

same goes for WUSV and FMBB and so on , nothing wrong but you dont win any of those with a hard strong stubborn dog

 

"It's what the individual INTERPRETATION  of the breed ideal is".
That comment sums up the question the op has.
This is why the breed is in the state it's in today. If your comment is true, why aren't ALL the other Continental Shepherds in the same fix?