The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 28

I was not going to comment again here but as it is going off topic again I would like to ask a question.  For all of those who liked to see videos why is it that we never see a video of a dog that is working at any discipline other than the bite work?

By the way Haz you never responded to my question which was regarding "how tight is tight for you in linebreeding?.  I asked this question because you said that you were thinking of buying a male or female with tight inbreeding. I do not want the readers to think that you have dodged this one.  I expect that it was an oversight on your part.

This definitely my last post here.

Mackenzie

 

 Well if we   testing SL in example the ringsport jump exercises there will be serious problems  even some WL do

I bet the GSD in the earlier days  with an other and IMO better anatomy  will succeed  this exercises

 

Ibrahim, if we talk about functionality in workingbreeds and their conformation in relation to that, we can easily see that a malinois is very agile and wanted for that in many jobs, and a malinois is totally the opposite of the angulation and bodyshape of the showline german shepherd

 

we can put the workingline shepherds somewhere in the middle between malinois and showline in angulation topline etc and we see even some workingline german shepherds having problems with jumping and climbing

so I think it is fair to say that showline conformation/angulation is not bringing any advantages for any working position a GSd can do

 

I think, speak about german shepherd is waste of time. German shepherd is most poppular dog in world. This dog is very smart so you (dresser) must not be so smart to dresser german shepherd. He have many many films behind, all army in world have, all borders, all police.... He is fast but not the fastest, strongest scent and most importent is most loyal to fammily. He is worker, he is beattiful, he is keeper and i may speak about this dog evry day.

Joanro, I do not think the intention of the OP was to see SL or WL and their fanciers be crucified rudely here, now if you have any further comments to make about my post do so in a PM thank you.

Duke,

 

The German Shepherd was designed to suit its main function as a shepherd, that is why its proportions are longer than tall and rear angulation is deep enough to generate maximum force needed for a long step and front is close to 90 degree in shoulder to make a maximum front reach, its total balance is designed for endurance not speed not gallop and not jump.

While it should gallop decently and jump decently, its body was not designed specifically for either one. Traits for herding, tending and protecting a flock of sheep make it suitable for protecting and giving its family a superior companion. That was the idea behind creating the breed originally, nothing more, nothing less. To dwell a bit more, the breed was not created nor designed for hunting, sport, police or army work.

Later authority of the breed, trainers, breeders and owners, as life, industry and society developed,  found out that the breed could do many utilities because of its genetic build up, and it is indeed a versatile dog.

Utility as a herding dog almost diminished, vanished, and that was a vital challenge for the breed authority, they had a breed on hand that was developed as a shepherd, a utility that is no more seeked for by dog owners. What to do then? How to keep the breed and for what uses?

If we ignore and put aside the original design of anatomy and dismiss the original traits of it as a shepherd, then the breed will be watered down eventually and lost, it will no more be a German Shepherd.

That quesion had no single answer at the time, various opinions shaped up as more utilities came to existence with society development. Uses and utilities included, pets, companion, show ring, police work, SAR, blind guide, agility, sport, you name it.

So we are at the moment with a breed, its main function and utility is gone with the wind,

1. some people breed for its original anatomy but with exagerations, utility diversity narrowed, some traits were lost.

2. Some people breed for sport, they don't pay attention to the breed's original anatomy design or diverse utility, drives have become extreme and do not resemble those of the original breed.

3. several "Some people" breed for a specific trait, be it eye sight or what ever, you name few.

 

This breed needs us to answer the above question courageously and wisely, there is no one group that has the complete right to claim it still breeds the originally created breed, anatomy and function wise. The original breed lies in parts (pieces) in all present types, not in a single one type of them.

Do we want to regain the original breed?

Does the original breed have use in today's life and society?

If yes, then how can we do that?

 

Ibrahim

Anything that lessens the nerve and breed instinct will eventually lead to decline in GS character. The problem with SL primarily is genetics( or 40 years of genetic back massing eliminating strengths from other in breed) which had LED to decline in temperament and working structure. The WL breed is moving more and more to breeding dogs that have more Mali features in drives, to keep up with this breed in sport and speed. Fortunately, for WL people many have been willing to integrate DDR or Czech dogs into their lines to bring some balance back. ( Not all West WL are over the top in drives(mostly prey) but trend was moving that way as they narrowed their gene pool on dogs like T litter Nabarschaft and progeny).  Still,many real WL breeders mixed in DDR dogs, Czech dogs, and Scandinavian dogs who although come from same lines as WL, have not used IPO to " shape" the direction of the dog. The SL people are in an untenable situation, in that the only solution is to breed for at least 3-5 generations away from the Black and red dog to overcome the back massing genetic strength of non working structure and weaker nerves in general. They in general are not willing to do this so the definition of insanity applies here.( that being doing same thing over and expecting different results...lol). The GS breeder must put nerve, and breed instincts above anything else to improve character of breed, and if they do and then either work the dogs or consistently produce dogs that are successful in work; the sport and show types can be found from within. But you can't breed FOR show dogs or FOR sport dogs as your primary goal. Jmo

Ibrahim i disagres with your story

Ibrahim, as far as I know, von stephanitz lobbied to get german shepherds in as many jobs as possible, not only herding and familyprotection,

temperamentwise I think many of todays showwinners are not suitable for those jobs anyway and conformationwise todays showwinners dont look a bit like the dogs from those days,

we live in a supply and demand world, meaning that you cannot keep breeding something if there is no market for it and todays market for working GSd is not demanding  exelent rating on a show but mainly that the dogs perform their job, and the ability to do so, meaning climbing, jumping etc

I have no problem with showdogs, I have been showing dogs for decades as well, but I am well aware that selectioncriteria for show or work are 100 % opposite

in the  serious workingworld  nobody cares about KKL, vorzuglig or not, or even if they have pedigree, so I think few people share your idea to get a more showline conformation in the workingline german shepherds

 

Well I respect your disagreement Milenko, but that is not My Story, it's the breed's history.

Duke, I agree that he did market the GSD for various sorts of utility as the need arised along with cociety development.

But again, first creation of the breed was for sheep herding (that was the main utility at the time) from various sheep herding dogs in Germany, and breed was named German Shepherd Dog not any other name, those are the facts.

 

For your other views regarding society need from a working dog and suitable structure for certain functions I can only say you migh be right and I would love to hear other's opinions too.