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by Penny on 26 January 2009 - 23:01
Yes Pam,
I see that as a problem too, but with time and patience and lots of help I am sure that we could all get on and would iron that side of it out too. There is safety in numbers it is said, and just think what a successful issue we could achieve for both sides if we all worked together. We could show seperately, and enjoy our shows and our rings without looking at two types and wondering why. It is nature to look at a dog different to the type that you favour and not want it in the same ring as yourself. There are am sure lots of little things that would need discussion and suggestions from everyone, but many hands make light work - and we could all enjoy getting this change off the ground. - Mo
by Videx on 27 January 2009 - 00:01
The separation of The German Shepherd Dog ( Alsatian) should be the absolute priority for all involved with both sides of this breed here within the UK. It offers so much for both sides, separate Breed Standards, separate Show classification at General Championship Shows, separate Breed Councils, separated bloodlines, separate breeding programmes and separate names. The German Shepherd Dog and The Alsatian. That is what we should all be aiming for, that is surely a WIN & WIN solution for both sides.
We all must be sick of apologising and/or explaining about the "other" side of this GSD (Alsatian) breed here in the UK.
We should simply, but very seriously pursue a "separation of the GSD (Alsatian) to become two breeds, The German Shepherd Dog and The Alsatian. This should become are clear and concise objective. All talk and comments about 'splitting with the Kennel Club should cease, because it clearly damages the "primary objective".
We should continue to pursue all other issues, particularly those currently being pursued by The GSD Partnership.
by reason on 27 January 2009 - 08:01
I think with a correctly complied committee BOTH side would agree it would take 6/8 people sitting down in a hotel for a full weekend to come up with a proposal that put to the KC, ,with completely independent people, backed by the GSDL BAGSD and BC. With that kind of SOLIDARITY the KC would have to give it a level of consideration, after that we muster the troops on BOTH sides to support the proposal and then we would have a chance, It would also provide the springboard to a single GERMAN SHEPHERD BREED CLUB based on the European System with the same relationship that the SV have with the VDH
You see Misbeeb i can be positive! and REASONable
by missbeeb on 27 January 2009 - 09:01
LOL... you can, reason!
I'm gonna keep out of this one now because I think we should dump the KC, thereby, getting rid of the Alsatianists at the same time... two birds... one stone! That's not to say that I'm right, but it's how I feel.
Best of luck!
by reason on 27 January 2009 - 09:01
by Videx on 27 January 2009 - 11:01
in very simple terms, I predict the following scenario:
1) Some GSD would go 'independent' - some would stay with the KC - the Alsatianists would stay with the KC.
2) The KC would continue their own 'autocratic' way with the GSD (Alsatian) - with a much stronger element from the Alsatianists, because of the fewer GSD within the KC.
3) The Rules of the WUSV "require" the National GSD Club members to be "approved" by the national Kennel Club, except in "exceptional circumstances" eg South Africs.
4) The 'breakaway' GSD would almost certainly lack "unity" - in other words be fragmented.
5) The clear LACK of leadership that exists and has long existed within our GSD breed here in the UK, will NOT change. Simply because the British do NOT like to 'follow' anyone. We are not similar to the Germans in this respect.
6) The teamwork required to formulate, establish and develop a 'breakaway' GSD organisation within the UK, is not attainable.
7) If anyone wants an example of 'failure' within the GSD of the UK - Look no further than the GSD Breed Council. An organisation that consitently FAILS to tackle the major issues - eg our damaging "CC rotation system" - "re-allocation of CC's" - "A GSD Breed Club Championship Show EACH month" - etc etc.
8) The 'breakaway' GSD organisation would need to have both National & International RECOGNITION, in order to establish Shows and attract entries, and to be able to exhibit overseas, and to breed their females to overseas males, and to participate in WUSV breeding qualifications, and to have their pedigrees recognised, etc etc.
9) The GSD would be further split within the UK. Those remaining within the KC would fight strogly to thwart every aim of the breakaway GSD group.
I will STOP there, however believe me there are MANY more issues to be faced by any 'breakaway' GSD organisation and its members.
MY CONCLUSION: let us focus on the separation of the GSD (Alsatian) and get our current house IN ORDER to BEST serve all our needs.
by missbeeb on 27 January 2009 - 11:01
The Kennel Club is NOT fit for function. We need to establish an alternative REGISTRATION organisation in the UK or use a European organisation. One which takes the health and wellbeing of our breed very seriously. It is likely that one of the many breeds being insulted by the Kennel Club under their current wave of activity will ESTABLISH an alternative. The ANTI-MONOPOLY LAWS, both here and in Europe, will STOP the Kennel Club from taking any punitive measures against anyone.It is time we gave the Kennel Club the heave ho!
11 days.... and we have a complete turnabout!
by Videx on 27 January 2009 - 12:01
Such a strategy would GRAB the attention of the Kennel Club, and as the exploration and moves in keeping with that strategy were taking place, we could have meeting with the KC, with a view to resolving all our major differences.
The strategy has one particular major weakness, OUR CURRENT WEAK GSD ORGANISATIONS. a feature of the GSD over many years, and I reluctantly have to accept they are incapable of developing such a strategy. They will go cap in hand to the KC, and continue to be treated contemptuously by the KC, as were the GSD Partnership at their last meeting with the KC, November 20th 2008, and the previous days communication about the AGENDA.
I wrote this threads title - it is very CLEAR what it says, and yes I do believe our breed,, with other breeds, should explore all the issues surrounding a split from the Kennel Club, primarily to clearly iidentify the potential problems and consequences, and any opportunities, such as an alternative Registration system. We need to GAIN not LOSE by such a drastic move.
by jesse james on 27 January 2009 - 15:01
Not saying I don't agree with sentiment of this thread but. Supposing I buy a dog from one you (certainly wouldn't want to buy an Alsatian). Now this dog isn't registered with the KC because you have broke away, I want a GSD and want to compete in KC obedience or working trials what am I to do????????????
Jess
BTW what is all the nonsense that is at the top of the messages lately.
by Lissa on 27 January 2009 - 15:01
Hi, wasnt going to post on this thread, but would just like to point out that I own a so called English type Shepherd and a German showline type Shepherd, and I was annoyed to see the English type being slated for having sagging backs, unsound temperments etc. as mine is a super dog confirmation wise as hes not over exaggerated and certainly doesnt have weak back or temperment etc. I too, am a massive fan of the German type dog and decided to buy a puppy from a well known show kennel in England, but he has turned out to have quite alot of confirmation faults such as massively oversized, by 2 inches, very pale eye colour and soft ears, and is very easily frightened by people even though hes been very well socialised since a puppy. I love them both to bits though, but am just trying to point out that whatever type you like or think is correct, both types can have breed or temperment faults, yes even the German ones! Over the years I ve always had both types, and sadly lost my last dogs due to CDRM and anal furunculosis, one was English and one was German, so unfortunately it goes to show that both types suffer from the same terrible health problems, perhaps we need to think about the overall health and soundness of temperment before anything else.
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