The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 25

train the dog you have now. go further in a training discipline than you have ever gone before. See what goals you can reach. When it comes time to breed the dog, go to the best specimen you can to compensate, correct, and further your dream dog. but train first. 

The problems with the show line:

1. Many breeders breed for pigmentation and over angulation in the rears

2. Many breeders breed to the winning VA irregardless if that dog is sound in nerves or not, if that dog did well in bite test or not

3. Many breeders do not select for conformation as well as temperament and work ability, whenever a compromise should be done it is always work ability, drives and temperament, conformation comes first and sometimes alone.

4. Almost all breeders do not breed to a very good work line male even though when it has correct conformation and can add to nerves and work ability

5. Many breeders think of selling more than improving their lines in versatllity and utility

6. Many breeders do not have a self strategy, they do what others do in a certain period and area

7. Many do not know what correct angulations are and think overangulation gives them more chances to win in the ring.

8. Show judges preach for correct angulations but put overangulated dog infront

 

That does not mean all showlines are not good or all show breeders are doing wrong, maybe the good breeders who are doing right are in the dark because we do not see their dogs win in Sieger Show !!!!

ibrahim; go train your dog[s] do it better than you have ever done it before. try a different type of training. 

"I do not understand Joanro how a work GSD, is correct in structure, when many of them are less angulated in their rears and less angulated in ther fronts.
What makes a GSD anatomy different is its proportions and angulations, that is what differentiates it from other breeds, when work line does not meet the breeds required angulations, how can one claim its structure is correct."

That is where you are so wrong, lbrahim , in your idea of the gsd. The breed proportions, angulations should NOT be what differentiates it from other breeds...the gsd should be a MODERATE breed in structure, it should be normal, it should be able to flat foot hop clear over a four foot fence with ease, the gsd should not stand out from other Moderate working breeds in structure...that is the fallacy you are aiming at which will destroy the WL structure and functionality same as the SL. Your belief as expressed above is why I believe they should be separate breeds. Please stop trying to impose your belief of the correct gsd, a belief you attained from the distorted sv dogs, onto the able bodied WL dogs....these dogs are much much more than well defined whithers and turn of stifle.

Ss, the issue is more than weak nerves, as I've attempted to point out. If your statement about the SL is accurate, then why do you need to use the WL to "fix" what, according to your statement, is not broken? The structure sucks in the SL and too many breeders of the WL are trying to emulate that nonfunctional structure to be competitive in the show ring to sell more puppies.
Ss stated; "Joan, not all SL dogs are weak-nerved, just like not all WL dogs have over the top drives. Obviously, if you were going to do this, you would start with sound, balanced dogs from each bloodline. They ARE out there!"

One camp thinks the SL structure and character is correct and to the standard, most WL breeders know that is not true and are not willing to compromise their functional, correct gsds. They are two separates breeds by now. Doesn't matter the common origins, they have been selectively bred to be separate.

This is getting so tiring, watching threads like this go in 18 different directions, people trying to defend their "flavor" dog, people making comments that have no basis in reality, so, here are my comments, based on logic and common sense.

GSDstudent...training a dog will NOT ever increase its breeding ability, titles do NOT make for a potent producer, genetics do, so, this asinine statement over and over, "go train your dog" does not belong in here. A club level IPO I dog may produce better then the one who won the World last year in IPO III. The problems this breed has will not be solved by training.

Sunsilver, "They ARE out there" means very little if you cant point and name them, the dogs, the breeders, etc. This sounds like looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack..."Yes my son, they are out there, if you look at noon, on the 3rd Sunday of the month after the bells ring"...Where are they, if they ARE out there, why arent they being used and why no one can find them?

Everyone, there are NO SL and WL dogs, I know, surprise...if you really want to push it, there are SPORT LINE dogs and SHOW DOGS, but, again, that is not reality. The reality is this, there is a German Shepherd breed that was created to WORK, do a job or have the proper genetics to be able to do that job should the need arise. That job is NOT sport titles and its not the show ring, so, if you have a GSD that can work and do the work that the breed was created for, you actually have a GSD, if it cannot do what the breed was meant to do upon creation, you do NOT own a GSD, call it something else and enjoy it as that.

As far as trying to mix lines and create this and hope for that, I believe that ship sailed a very long time a go and its now to the point that the creation of a different breed is needed for those who insist on owning a dog that looks like a GSD but cannot work like one. Have a great day everyone.

 

hired dog; of course the dog' s genes will not be changed by training. The owner will change their way of looking at their charges. Read the last paragraph of OP post! 32 pages is just non sence

Hired dog - I agree with everything that you say with the exception of starting a new breed.  The contributors to this thread are mainly from the USA and reflect more on what is happening over there.  I live in Europe and thankfully we do not have the show dogs that kneel in the in the show ring plus other exaggerations.  The sport dogs are mainly directed to extreme aggression.  The US is way behind what is happening on this side of the pond.

As the original poster I do not see any more in this thread for me.

Goodbye everyone

Mackenzie  

The only reson certain people keep saying SL should be bread with WL is because with this post they have come to relise SL breaders have ruined their gsd and nothing else to offer WL need them is all they have to hold on to .I would never let  a SL near wy WL they have nothing to offer. Week nerves low drives I dont think so

Brilliant synopsis of the state of the breed, Yogi. You must have put a lot of thought behind that.  BTW it's spelled breed and breeders, not bread and breaders.