The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 24

 

 

@ Blitzen yes I have owned GSD  

 

@ Ibrahim  thanks for explanation  but I can,t see any personal benefit crossing SL into  WL

SL more lacking charcatar, drives,temper ,nerves,health problems,bad anatomy etc etc 

All what I personal  need I can find better in WL  ........ but   hey thats just me saying.

 

 

 

 

 

Ibrahim ; The breed stemmed from various different types of dogs, later type and traits were set over the course of many years of hard work and insistence, nowaday we are in a much better status, we can strengthen traits and type through selecting from work and show dogs and breeding them together."

When the breed was being developed, I doubt the snowline of today is what was in mind. Nor would the extreme bouncing off the walls dogs that are not SL. Ibrahim, with all due respect, your insistence that the WL, in general, does not conform to the standard in structure is not accurate, in general. And you also seem to concentrate on the development of the whithers, the hocks, top line, croup....if the dog was chosen and bred to be an athlete, all those structural problems would disappear. How does one go about fixing "loss of well defined whithers" ? Imo, that loss of definition is a direct result of the deformed roach back. Any time I've seen the whithers thing pointed out, the back rose up behind the whithers like the dog was hit by a truck in the arse.
Form follows function.

Both inbreeding and outcrossing have their place in a breeding programme.  It is having the knowledge as to when and for how long they should be used in order to achieve the required need and with as little or no detriment to the breed as a whole.  This is one area where inbreed coefficients are valuable.

The GSD is a utility dog and can be used in multidisciplines based on proper construction, good health and firm character e.g. fit for purpose including being a family dog.

Mackenzie

Train, don't complain. 

Ibrahim, one other thing that always comes to mind when you keep insisting the WL needs the SL infused to correct the horrific structure you beiieve is possessed by the WL, is how in the world do you plan on not ruining the nerves, instincts,temperament , drives of the WL by the SL.? I mean, have you figured out a way to distillate what is inherited from the SL other than their wonderful structure, which will supposedly Fix all those wls structure?
Sorry to sound a bit snide, but I think you are not thinking through the reality of your plan. If you need to get the dirt out of a tank of water,you don't do it by add in sludge.

Joanro, the show ring was there at Stephanitz time, and it is supposed to be a tool to evaluate conformation and endurance, there is nothing wrong in it, itself. Breeding for only conformation or color is what is wrong and did not do the breed good.

I agree with your comments on withers, once the back developed equivalent slope of that of withers, the definition of withers got lost. This is one example of standard modifications that did wrong to GSD anatomy, in my opinion. Present standard no more calls for a well defined withers that is slightly sloping.

I do not understand Joanro how a work GSD, is correct in structure, when many of them are less angulated in their rears and less angulated in ther fronts.

What makes a GSD anatomy different is its proportions and angulations, that is what differentiates it from other breeds, when work line does not meet the breeds required angulations, how can one claim its structure is correct.

 

I am in no way saying a work line should develop in rear angulation to become overangulated like the trend in many show GSDs, no, not at all, correctly angulated is what both the work and show should meet.

Joanro, if a show line has strong nerves and outgoing it will benefit from outcrossing to a work line with good work ability and good drives. And if a work line has a decent structure (not all messed up) it can benefit from crossing with a show that has decent drives and decent work ability. The whole breed will benefit.

We can only put a strategy to overcome breed decline when both the show breeders as well as work breeders admit and accept that neither the show nor the work types conform to breed standard in a very good extent, in this regard I find the show breeders more admitting of their type's faults and shortcomings and more prone to corrections in near future, hopefully.

 

Ibrahim 

train them first, show them later. read the OP [ last paragraph] too many academics, too few workers. von Stepanitz saw the weak link in a non-working breed. 

I disagree with this statement ; "....the show is closer to standard in type, looks and conformation. The show has same good qualities of the work dog in regards to traits and instincts...". If any of that was true, then what's the problem with the SL?

Joan, not all SL dogs are weak-nerved, just like not all WL dogs have over the top drives. Obviously, if you were going to do this, you would start with sound, balanced dogs from each bloodline. They ARE out there!