Breeders, show us what you have produced. - Page 24

ain't that the truth

To me it is like admiring women, sometimes the really really hot one looks great at first, but then the whole thing gets ruined because she is dumb, boring, whatever. Then you have the pretty girl that is very interesting and she is much hotter in time than the really hot girl simply because you enjoy everything about her.

I have worked dogs in the past that enjoyed working, but really had no business in a trial. The over all dog was perfect with children, you could goof with him and never worry about getting bit anywhere that didn't have protection, you could let him knock you down and he would come off the bite and lick your face, you know that kind of dog. All around good dog. Go anywhere dog.

I tend to talk in terms of ideal. What ideally you should strive for. I am never going to know so many of your dogs, as the US is just gigantic. I have a friend who has a showline dog, and had a guy do a home invasion sort of scenario. The dog stood in the door. He fought that guy with every fiber of his being, and afterwards slept for a long long time.

If there was any one thing that I wish that I could get in a pup out of my breedings, just ONE thing, that would be it. Screw getting a title, perfect drives, color, screw everything else really, if I could get that ONE thing everytime I would.

Reading a dog is one of the things that is the hardest thing to actually explain to people. I know I can see thresholds, drive, character, but there is always what you have seen from experience, and that will be different with every person. 

When you have seen a dog like this dog work, everything else moves down the ladder a bit.



It HAS to be like that. You cannot (IMO) lessen your breed by saying that is a DS so it is apples to oranges



This dog worked the rest of the trial with a broken rib. I can say he is an orange, but that was a hell of a hit. I want to find out more about this dog, and see if I can add him to my program. Does he pass this, or is this training, and he is a one off ??

Some people whose background is in Sch, and have ONLY DONE sch, might say his bark is all prey. After seeing that hit, and I have been told he hits like that all the time, ( I have no idea if that is true YET) how would you read this dog if he was doing a B&H ?? lol

So, what you see and experience, and how ruthless you are as an evaluator is the difference in how one reads a dog. I am never very "nice" when evaluating a dog, whether it is mine, yours, Mom and Dads, whatever. 

One of my faults is that I am not the salesman. Some on here tout their dogs as the next coming of Jesus Christ. I am never going to sound like that, and if I do, you can rest assured that I am making fun of those that do sound like that.

Listen to him Squeek ! ! ! !  Long ago I noticed that dogs that would hurt you very very badly in a suit didn't always have a "proper" bark, and were not "balanced" in prey and defense. Dogs like this are the reason that "balanced drives" means that you never got past square one in evaluating a dog. I want a prey monster, as he is just not afraid of you. I do not want my dog to be afraid in training ever. If the dog shows "balanced" or equal amounts of defense and prey, he is gone. I do not want that dog. 

Here is my gift to the PDB.

Jeff, exactly why more Malis look great in the courage test. Ever see a predominantly defense driven Dobe in the Courage Test? Also why all the hoopla and distractions in your sport don't mean a thing to a high prey dog.

Quote: Also why all the hoopla and distractions in your sport don't mean a thing to a high prey dog.

I guess you just don't watch the videos where the dog hesitates, or gets punked. I guess they would need some defense work to fix that. LOL

You need to stick with what you know, or get out and watch something other than stupid Sch. You are missing out on learning a lot about dogs.

Lmfao You guys are seriously arguing with Jeff? I havent been in this very long at all but know Jeff will say anything to keep the argument going. Gotta give it up to you dude, PDB & WDF it's fun reading this stuff. Makes the day go by faster ;)

Actually, I'm not usually talking about just "prey and defense drives" when I say "balanced." I mean mentally balanced, all-around balanced, like Jeff describes his ideal. A dog who is not crazy, a dog who knows exactly who/what he's biting and why, and is clear in the head. A dog who can take as much or more than he brings and never shuts down under pressure. Most people don't put enough real pressure on their dogs before judging their character/temperament, imo. 

 Reading a dog is something of an art, and I agree w/Jeff; it's a hell of a thing to try to explain to people how to do. I don't see why, however, it's perceived like it's rocket science or that you need to do some specific sport in order to know how to read a dog. I have met many oldtimers who never titled a dog who could read a dog far better than many "trainers." 

One thing I will say for myself, despite the fact that I have not and probably will not ever title a dog in a sport,  what people WILL say about any dog I sell them is that it's exactly what I said it was, so I can't be quite as stupid as you think. Or I just get really really lucky and awful lot! LOL  And these are often people who know what they're doing, even by Jeff's standards;-)

Bob, I agree and I disagree. I know that makes no sense, but I'm female, so making sense is optional when it comes to being right. LOL
Seriously, that's a big problem, and what I mean by people misinterpreting what they see. Seeing what they want can happen. Also, simply misunderstanding what they are seeing, I think happens even more often.

My biggest problem w/selectively breeding dogs SOLELY to excel in sport is that an overabundance of prey can cover too many tempermental faults. A mediocre trainer w/a dog w/a ton of prey drive can accomplish a lot and make it look good. Then the accomplished dog, genetic temperamental faults and all, gets bred because of its titles. THIS is my only problem w/breeding solely for sport. 

Now, I have a new puppy to play with, so that's all from me tonight;-)

Uh, Jiffy Jeff, I was actually agreeing with you. Most dobes look like s#!t because of the lack of prey. Maybe you misunderstood.

Quote:  I have met many oldtimers who never titled a dog who could read a dog far better than many "trainers." 

Just because you agree with what they think, doesn't mean they are right about things. 

Quote: 

Uh, Jiffy Jeff, I was actually agreeing with you. Most dobes look like s#!t because of the lack of prey. Maybe you misunderstood.

Probably, I have been cutting brush all day.