Long down stays

by yellowrose of Texas on 17 May 2007 - 18:05

Maybe an American Akc showdog can do a 30 min downstay at 6mos old, but not a reasonable thing to bother to work on with a german pup, work or otherwise.... if u need your pup to do the other command of the sport or obedience and respond with vigor the long down stay is the last thing on the agenda down stays for 5 mins or 10 mins in the rectangle for the teaching of calmness are done inside or in a place of quietness for the test of watching my master for the q and impleminenting manners inside for a high drive pup, is done at early stage, but not 30 min stays that I would try till all obedience and tracking are accomplished ,,,just my opinion ..

by 1doggie2 on 17 May 2007 - 19:05

Westdog1, I think I know the breeder you are speaking of, they are located in Ca. and yes, they send home their trained pups capable of doing a 30 minute downstay. Most of the dogs they sell are pets to pet homes. They do particapte in SCH and also sell protection dogs. It depends on the type of dog you are looking for. I can tell you this, the ones that go home to pet homes and are trained by them have less issues with the buyers, because the families forget what it is like to have "baby" in the house. I have seen on the net comments, that the picture they post is fake, it is not. I have been to the kennel when working the dogs and pups. I am not here to argue about, is it a good thing or a bad thing for a dog you are wanting for SCH or competition. I just know it works for them, I have not seen it take anything away from the dog, they are not turned into robots, they still have personality, they just also have manners. All training done, is done with soft hands and cliker, the pups are not stressed in anyway.I would support what they are doing, I am tired of seeing/hearing of puppy buyers wanting to take back the pups because they are to much trouble and have no clue how to handle their new bundle of joy. The kennel owner was ill for awhile, I helped out during that time, and I got a belly full of of the buyers that bought the pups without the training. I saw a very big difference between the two. I actually, should be bad mouthing them, biz deal gone bad. But I would be wrong on this one, I have seen first hand how it is a better match for the pet puppy buyer, so it is all about the dogs!

by angusmom on 17 May 2007 - 20:05

i bought my male gsd from the breeder in ca that i think you're talking about. i took my pup ome at 2 mos and trained (w/classes) myself. i have seen their training. they us the gentle leader and gentle CONSISTANT training. if pup or dog ets up, gently put them back down in a stay. we had our bel mal inboard trained w/them and at 5 mos she easily did a 30 min down/stay, etc, etc. we try to put both dogs in a 30 min down/stay evey day. now, my male is a BIG baby - he may require more gentle reminders to stay down, but he does it. i've seen these breeder/trainers at work w/ all kinds of dogs and puppies of all ages. they do very good work as far as i have been able to see. i've also watched them do protection work and those hi drive dogs also do 30 in down/stays around other dogs and many distractions. the key to it all is gentleness and constistancy.

by angusmom on 17 May 2007 - 20:05

by the way, our belmal is 17 mos now and our male gsd just turned 1 year old. they are pets, not working dogs. we take obedience classes w/breeder on a fairly regular basis and i also take classes at petsmart for the socialization. my male really enjoys other dogs and people, so far. both dogs get regular exercise and play, but we're not into schutzhund or protection. if you are in southern ca, i'd recommend going out and watching a class to see how they work. they often will have at least one gsd pup that they are training for new owners. i personally enjoyed the "baby" stage and early training; it helped that my male is very mellow and not a hi-drive dog. but i've never seen personality of a dog damaged or "stomped on".

by 1doggie2 on 17 May 2007 - 21:05

angusmom, congrats on your puppy.

You are correct when you say hi drive on some of them. Did you meet Jimmy, he is my all time favorite. They do not breed him anymore, always sorry I did not get a pup from him. That dog had it all as far as temperment, I use to love to watch him work and come off the field and give you a kiss. They used him in crowds for demo work. He was a police dog from Hungy and so friggin stable, clear headed.

by angusmom on 17 May 2007 - 21:05

i believe we met jimmy - he's their personal dog, right? i have a dog out of barry and kappi. his uncle is in their testimonial section - his name is dutch. he was very mellow and then i saw him doin protection work - its interesting to see the difference between work and play. i think my boy is happy being mellow. if our bel mal hears someone close to our wall, she gets her hackles up and barks and races up and down the yard, while my angus runs over to me and sits in front of me and then barks. i'm not sure if he's protecting me or vice versa. he has been quietly protective of me (low woofs in his throat) when a homeless guys wanted to talk to me about him. he wasn't growly or aggro, but also not his normal friendly self. just his size is enuf for the most part.

by ALPHAPUP on 17 May 2007 - 21:05

well - a pup has a shprt attention span -- the eanswer to your question is twofold . First .. there is no down stay ... i expect don corleone to jump on my back again .. old thinking .. a down is a down .. train the postion and as you biuld your relationship with your dog teach self control .. the pup will let you know when it can attend to you for longer intervals ... and allabout" .. good work .. i can have a 20 month old pup down for a spell of time and holds it's position and for quite some time .. i do not control the dog .. no leash ..no collar. i cannot give a seminar here but very very easy to have a dog down hold position and you walk 50 yards away . i start my pups off at around 12 weeks old and they learn to hold position .. and for the critics .. B. F. Skinner taught birds to play ping pong and to stay in a position to peck for food .. golly how Hard is it to teach a pup to hold a position ??

by ALPHAPUP on 17 May 2007 - 21:05

forgot to add .. thew reason there is no long down stay ... down is down .. absolure , until you are released of the requirement or you arer given another requirement verbally or non-verbally .. sitz is sitz , sreh is steh and platz is platz. .. no other thought is ever taught to enter the dogs mind but the position . there is no blieb/stay in training .

by ALPHAPUP on 17 May 2007 - 21:05

forgot to add .. thew reason there is no long down stay ... down is down .. absolure , until you are released of the requirement or you arer given another requirement verbally or non-verbally .. sitz is sitz , sreh is steh and platz is platz. .. no other thought is ever taught to enter the dogs mind but the position . there is no blieb/stay in training .

by ALPHAPUP on 17 May 2007 - 21:05

forgot to add .. thew reason there is no long down stay ... down is down .. absolure , until you are released of the requirement or you arer given another requirement verbally or non-verbally .. sitz is sitz , sreh is steh and platz is platz. .. no other thought is ever taught to enter the dogs mind but the position . there is no blieb/stay in training .

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