This IRKS me! Does it bother anyone else? - Page 2

I have 2 really nice showlines that do work and my female has tons of drive. My friends have a male showline that also has a ton of drive! They are out there, you just have to look. I also have a west german working line male, my showline female has more drive then him!

Yup, I made that switch years ago.. But I would also be careful with the whole Czech dog hype. If you can find 1 quality dog out of 100 I think your doing well. I know there are many here in the US that start with them because they are so cheap... "But" I do not see that many in Europe being successful crossing the blood... Cheaper is not always better!!! schauspielkunst wrote: (& I know this is gonna start a huge riot) I think my post might do the same... "BUT" JMHO Best Regards, Dennis Johnson www.johnsonhaus.com

4Pack Well you are right about Kirschentals. I know they are great or I would not have gone there to get a pup! But this debate has been going on for years and years! I have been into GSD's for about 20 years. Back "then" it wasn't so much a split, but it was still there. If you had a dog that was from lines "the club people" liked that dog was worked good and if it made a mistake or had a bad day, well like I said excuses were made. If it was a dog "the club" couldn't figure out why it worked at all, it had to work harder and it better not make a mistake. When does it end, when do people get together and help one another without hurting others feelings for liking something different than what they like?? Does it benefit the GSD? I don't think so. Its the same thing for anything. If a person were to tell you your kid was screwed up, or your favorite other, what would you think? Or do? You'd get your hair up. People have to start working together w/o hurting each others feelings to make any progress here.

Interesting topic. Schauspielkunst: Why do you assume that the majority of the people answering your add know the difference? The reality is that many sporting Schutzhund clubs have the sport/show lines and dogs get to the III level but they pale in comparison to DDR/Czech lines. Like many others on this board I have seen SCH III competitions where the dogs look like they are gently reaching for the sleeve as opposed to hitting the decoy like a freight train. Of course their obedience is superb.... As far as show lines to make money, plenty of working lines make money. The fact is that most people who own a GSD can't manage or live with a true working line dog. It is simply meeting demand for what most of suburban America wants..why have the M5 BMW when the speed limit in your city is 40mph. More people can manage the lower drive show lines. Before we start slamming suburban America keep in mind that it is not all wine and roses across the pond. Many dogs are kenneled in such tight quarters it would upset most Americans. Additionally, Germans have the ability to ship out a problem/weak dog to an American GI for twice what they paid for it. This promotes poor breeding practices on their side as well. Please read what Hundguy says about mixing the blood...fear biting and nerve problems are not uncommon in mixing high drive Czech with mid drive W. German lines. There are exceptions to every rule. Hopefully, we can get to the point where we all concede that the lines are different and they fill different niches within the breed for those that love the breed

There is NO DOUBT, that on average (and a large percentage higher), workinglines out perform showlines, doing actual work. However, having said that so I don't get strung up in the nearest tree, what exactly is wrong with someone wanting the "prettier" side of the GSD world? A showline can still provide sport or protection for a person or family, and can be used in area's that "others" enjoy, such as dog shows, etc. There is room for all GSD's, whatever color, hair length, etc., they may have. Sure, certain dogs should not be bred, as is the case with every living thing. I would not breed a "blue" or a nervous or timid GSD, but certainly ya'll are not saying that showline breeding should be stopped all together, until "they" fade from existence? Are you? Is there a workingline enthusiast out there that actually would COMPLETELY ban the breeding of GSD showlines, if he or she was "The Decision Maker"? If you do not think along those terms, then what exactly is the point of all of this showline bashing? Just a few points and questions that "IRK" me. There is room for the Ford and the Mercedez on the highways. Showline enthusiasts never state that workinglines should be eliminated from the world but many times vice versa is stated. Why? Just don't cross them or purchase them if it ain't your cup of tea. Everyone always talks about "what's good for the betterment of the breed", which is hogwash. No one person (or thousand persons) is going to effect such a change in the GSD world. What it actually is, is "winning" the argument of your point of view. Just tell someone their showline is "pretty", smile and be done with it. Or, on the opposite side of the spectrum, just tell someone their sable is "athletic and brave for his size", smile and be done with it. The same old argument about the prices people are asking for "pink papered showlines", etc. is silly. Just don't buy the damn thing if it cost too much, unless you want to. It's your friggin money. Geesh.

LOL Very true, but I think what wrinkles, is that the GSD is a working dog. Why breed dogs that don't work? NO matter how damn pretty they are, it's not doing the breed any good. Deff not what Max wanted I can bet. I wouldn't go as far as saying showline enthusiasts NEVER state workinglines should be eliminated. I didn't get the impression anybody thinks sholines should be tossed in the trash either. I think we are hearing allot of people who are saying "quit breeding the softies, when there are working showlines still out there". Those are the dogs that should and need to be bred, for the sake of the breed.

It is quite refreshing to hear other people think like I do. I personally "like dogs" and especially "like" GSD's. I could give a rats ass what their lines are. I even like the ugly and or timid ones. They don't know they are ugly or timid, its just people who put their opinions out there on them. Again, can't we just chill and try to respect each other. After all, we all are suppose to like the same breed. And if your dog works better than mine or mine is prettier than yours, well so be it!

Me too, Trailrider.

I was lucky and started out 20 years ago with working dogs and have loved them ever since. I don't really care what you call my dog as long as it has a good temperement,solid nerves,high prey and food drive, athletic, nice conformation, able to work long hours if needed, good pigment,clearheaded, healthy, no joint problems. If the dog meets these requirements I don't care what his pedigree says he is. Too many people think that buying a dog with a "good" pedigree ensures it will be a quality dog, far from the truth and that applies to all lines and pedigrees. Takes alot of work to find a decent dog. Some of you here breed this type of dog and you should be proud. Anything less is either greed, stupidity or ignoranceof the breed standard.

As a working line person I just get so very ticked when sombody makes blanket statments working line dogs, or certain lines within the working dogs are ugly. I personnally (okay I'm biased) think our dogs are nice to beautiful. I also have seen some show line dogs I thought were very nice and some that can work pretty darn well. I've even met a few I wouldn't mind owning, but no room at the inn. :) I've also met both working and show line dogs I wouldn't take if given to me free with a lifetime supply of dog food.