HELP! Advice Sought.... - Page 2

That is a sane presentation of possibilities, DH. Thanks for presenting a calm perspective. I had not myself considered that the persons involved in selling the dog did not have the papers due to circumstances that might be legitimate. It is too easy to jump on the bandwagon. Veronica

The ETHICAL requirements are always difficult to sort out, but the LEGAL issues are not. If she has to secure the papers on her own, and she deducts the costs of doing so, plus a reasonable wage rate for the time she spends in this process, and pays the net balance to the importer, a court of law is very unlikely to ask more of her. If the importer sues her, he or she will be in a very awkward position trying to explain the mishap in court, and would not expect to recoup the full costs of the contract.

MVF - legally the buyer has no right to the papers til the dog is paid for. Why is this even an issue now? She has no right to the ownership title of this dog. Her search for the papers whereabouts only suggests that she is trying to pull a fast one on the seller. If she is trying to get the ownership title before the dog is paid for, then how is that supposed to be legal? Lease a car, leasing company maintains ownership til either the lease is up and car is returned, or you buy out the lease, then you get title on the car. Buy a car and make payments, default on payments, car is repossessed, because til car is paid for buyer does not have title of the car, only use of it under the assumption that buyer will make all payments. Once car is repossessed and balance is not paid, initial payment is usually gone byebye. Buyer is without that and now his car too. Buy a dog, agree to payments, worry about papers when the dog is paid for. Not before. Nothing unethical or illegal here on the side of the seller according to what has been written so far. If papertrail has not been kept up according to SV rules, seller may have to deal with SV action - SV can impose a fine if seller is an SV member, but does not have to. Something has to happen first. That has not happened yet. Once dog is paid for and then papers are not coming, then something has happened. In that case see prev post. Right now I see a buyer who is trying to get full use of the dog including full registration before the dog is paid for. What is the incentive of the buyer to keep making payments once the dog is USA registered and she can do everything she wants with it? The incentive to keep making those payments is to get that full title of ownership, which is transferred once and only once the dog is paid for. Want to show and breed and do whatever - then pay for that *privilige*, and be *grateful* that a seller was so *accommodating* to accept payments. Even though it seems there was no actual need for it, since there seems to be money readily available for those registration and showing the dog. Which looks like this was part of a plan to avoid paying full price on the dog from the get go, and little interest to actually pay that debt! Debt needs to be paid. Then things usually fall into the exact place they should be. Non-payment is good enough of a reason for repossession of that dog.

Sometimes when I read this list I wonder if the subject matter is a dog or a steer. Seems to be little emotion involved in these deals. Too bad for the dogs.

My question would be, WHY would these people claim to have had the papers though? They could have just said until the dog was paid there will be no papers. But now my friend said he they are scrambling to get the papers, and saying they HAD THE ORIGINALS IN HAND and they must be "lost in the mail" ... I do know that my friend is not trying to get out of paying for the dog, but after talking to a few breeders in her area, and having them tell her something sounds fishy she's confused and just thrown off. And as for her wanting full rights, she just wanted to get her USA Membership so that when the dog was in fact paid off she was 100% ready to go (with the scorebook, and membership card, etc) But there are alot of things that just don't add up with these sellers, aside from what was openly posted. And if you want more details (indepth, etc) feel free to e-mail me at vegas_k9s@hotmail.com I would be more than happy to answer more questions, and even put you in touch with my friend!

Blitzen-- I agree. All legalities aside--payment plans don't seem to always be in the best interest of these dogs. What happens to the dog when he is dragged away from what he has come to know as his home when the owner renegs on his agreement and misses a few payments? Outright, full payment to either the breeder or broker would make all parties involved much happier--especially the dog.

LMH, most of the time it's all about money. Screw the welfare of the dogs.

Forget the USA paperwork (doesn’t take that long anyway). There are bigger probs. Situation is fishy indeed and sounds like the run around story someone I know is getting too only they paid in full. I wonder if it’s the same breeder/importer duo? Ya’ll should compare notes. Will forward info so they can contact directly. In the meantime, buyer should keep up their end and pay in full thru escrow. Do the paper trail, seek conclusion in writing (include deadline) from the seller here in the states. If he doesn’t come thru, get legal counsel and file a written complaint with the SV. They can’t help solve your friends problem but will attempt to validify and log complaint. It may help keep someone else from being duped.

Why can't people just tell the TRUTH in the first place?? Then this person would have had the answers she needed and not gotten confused trying to figure things out! Surely it would have been easier to spell it out than to lie and now have to back track! She has done nothing wrong in defending herself and making sure she does not get screwed. We all have heard of this type of scam over and over. Why do we blame her for the broker's lies, causing suspicion?????? And YES, the dog does count and it sounds like he is loved and in a good home where he will be worked and enjoy life to the fullest. So what is wrong with where the dog is now? Sad that he had to travel so many places, but that's the breeder's fault for selling to a broker and not taking an interest in where the dog ends up. DH IS a broker and has her share of similar problems,(not her fault I'm sure...) so one has to expect that she would have the broker's interest at heart. This situation is just seen from the perspective that you come from. But I can't see how anyone can condone lying. That is a huge red flag to any upstanding person. Debby ebinezer052899@yahoo.com