Glucosamine/Chondroitin and Vitamin C - Page 2

L-Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is integral to hydroxylation of proline and Iysine during biosynthesis of collagen. Type I collagen is the most widely distributed in connective tissue (primarily in bone and ligaments). In puppies fed diets devoid of vitamin C for 147 to 154 days, growth was not affected and skeletal lesions were not noted.(25) There are no dietary requirements for vitamin C in the dog.(25) Vitamin C supplementation in pigs has produced elevations in plasma levels; however, articular concentrations of hydroxyproline were unchanged. Similar studies in dogs demonstrated transient elevation of plasma vitamin C concentrations, and long-term supplementation did not increase concentrations much above normal.(8) Excess vitamin C supplementation is generally considered to have little or no effect on the skeleton. The relationship between vitamin C and developmental disorders of the skeletal system in the dog is as yet unproven. Megadoses of ascorbate fed to the bitch during pregnancy and provided to the offspring until young adulthood have been reported to eliminate CHD.(26) Ascorbate therapy was rationalized as an antistressor, a detoxicant, a metabolite necessary for maintaining biochemical homeostasis in the body, and a component in collagen synthesis. Eight litters of German shepherd puppies from known dysplastic parents or from parents that had produced dysplastic offspring were studied. The bitch received 2 to 4 g sodium ascorbate crystals per day during pregnancy. The puppies received calcium and vitamin supplements from birth to 3 weeks, 500 mg ascorbate per day from 3 weeks to 4 months, and I to 2 g ascorbate per day from 4 months up to 2 years. No CHD was reported in any of the offspring. However, no radiographs were taken to document presence or absence of dysplastic changes, and no long-term follow- up studies have been published. Neither this nor any other study has verified ascorbic acid levels, much less deficiencies, in dogs with hip dysplasia.(8) If CHD were to be associated with a low vitamin C level, lower concentrations would be more likely in younger animals undergoing the stresses of growth. No other studies have demonstrated a positive effect of oral supplementation of vitamin C in preventing CHD in growing dogs that are genetically at risk for the disease. Decreased levels of hydroxyproline found in arthritic cartilage from CHD joints are probably a reflection of degradation changes rather than lack of production . Finally, the relationship between vitamin C, joint laxity, and CHD in the dog is suspect because a decrease in systemic vitamin C levels could be expected to affect other joints. Canine hip dysplasia is often associated with degenerative disease in multiple joints; however, joint laxity other than in the hips is not reported.

Jamille, I would not feed the product you are recommending. Grapes in any form should not be fed to dogs - grapes are toxic to dogs and can cause renal failure among other issues. Thought what part of the grape/raisin is causing this has not been determined yet. So a supplement marketed to dogs containing grape seed extract and red wine extract as this one does would definitely be out of the question. No idea why someone would even market something like this specifically for dogs.

D.H. I am not at all concerned about this product being harmful, or I would not risk my animals health. I have done a tremendous amount of research and found out that this company has as well. Here is a link that a university of Animal Science has done research on these ingredients. This is not the only University that has conducted studies on this. They are finding positive benefits not negative. http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/12/3592 I have been using this product for a couple of years now, I will definately inform all, if any of my dogs have any issues associated with this. As, I only want the absolute best for my animals and others. This product has saved many of dogs lives, one being my sisters dog. After you read the link, it might be uncertain , what blood platelet aggregation has to do with helping the dog. Here are a couple of reasons this product is so powerful. It helps with all these issues: catarcts arthritis liver detoxification antioxidant levels in eyes wound healing immune boosting allergys free radical damage circulation cardiovascular systems growth pains reproductive health environmental toxins Stamina Aging Joint flexibility Joint developement Ect..

Vitamin C is not very useful to dogs when they are given more than they need. Whatever they don't use is flushed out in their urine, and dogs can produce their own Vitamin C, so why supplement?

Vitamin C is known for its function as one of the key nutritional Antioxidants that protect the body from free radical damage. It strengthens cells, and is an essential cofactor for the enzymes involved in the synthesis of collagen. Vitamin C is more commonly known for its roles as a preventative against infections and other viruses, wound healing, protection against the effects of stress, and promoting iron absorption. The antioxidant function of vitamin C is performed within the aqueous compartments of the blood and inside cells. Studies have shown that vitamin C protects plasma lipids from oxidative damage and also protects DNA and protein from various oxidative processes. VIT C IS A PREVENTATIVE MEASURE. IT IS AN ANTIOXIDANT Why drink milk? Possible prevent Osteoporosis? The other product I was refering to are known as OPC's "OLIGOMARIC PROANTHOCYANIDINS" http://www.marketamericascience.com/index.cfm?action=shopping.scProduct&storeID=168&prodID=5602

Jamille, not disputing that it is beneficial for humans. The feeding studies from what I could see only showed results over a 7 day period, not long enough to see if the grape extracts also had a negative effect on the dogs fed. I would simply like to alert people to the fact that grapes are toxic to dogs. Might want to research that as well. Some toxic effects take years to build up and show up. Logic dictates that the toxicity would outweigh the positive effect these extracts would have. For example, some dogs show no symptoms after ingesting chocolate, yet some do. The toxin in chocolate builds up in the body over time and a toxic level may be reached with a small amount at time X. There used to be special chocolate dog candies when I was a kid. Specially marketed to dog owners, at a time when no one had realized yet that chocolate was toxic to dogs. I remember feeding them as a kid to our muttmutt. Never thought for a second that it might harm my dog. The company marketing them probably thought so too. They did not maliciously go out and produce, market and sell a product that would potentially wipe out their target group. Just beware with what you choose to give to your dogs. I personally would not touch that product. Maybe if you can find some long term studies that can show that grape extracts are harmless I would. Because no one has found yet what part or substance of a grape is actually toxic to the dogs. It may not be the seeds since raisins are also toxic and do not contain seeds. the grapes skin is on both grapes and raisins and that I would be careful with. It could well be that this product is not toxic, but I would not want to chance that at this time. There are enough alternatives. But I would be interested in what you find about long term studies in dogs. Autobahn, though dogs can produce their own Vitamin C, the amount they produce is not enough. Maybe enough for a short lifespan in the wild of about 6 years, but not for our modern human needs of dogs living longer and aging well, meaning living well and in good health at an advanced age. Proper feeding and supplementation will have an affect on that. The supplementation will cover any deficits but not harm because what is not absorbed will be excreted. Since we do not know exactly how much Vitamin C the individual needs, and individual needs differ greatly, supplementation will cover what has been missed. In pups the need will be greater because of the stress growth puts on the young body. It is that ounce of prevention. Build a strong foundation and the structure will weather better over time.

The danger of grapes and raisins appears to be in the skin of the fruit, possibly an alkaloid, not in its seeds. Grape seed extract won't harm the dog. Vitamin C plays a role in the phosphate household and absorption of calcium. We have elected NOT to give additional Vit C to our dogs because we don't know enough about how it is metabolized in dogs, despite the fact that one of us is a chemist and the other, a biochemist.

I no longer give a vit C supplement to my dogs, ever since I found OPC. 3 years ago. I had originally used Vit C , 10 + years ago. Because , at the time it was one of the only possible ways, of hoping to prevent or at least keep to miniumum, the chance of my GSD's developing HD. As it was, I fortunatly never had a problem. Whether it was luck or the use of Vit C or both. ??? I switched to OPC, because it was a combination of inert ingredients, that were greater than Vit A,C, and E. As, I had mentioned previously on this post. I also, decided that OPC would be a great thing to switch to , because it is not singling out any Vit. Therefore, you don't have to worry about any imbalances. OPC , in its design, does for me what I was hoping that Vit. C was for all those years. With the added fact, that Glucosimine is also in this product makes it simple for me, because I can use it for preventative measures for puppies and maintenance for adults. I have had great success with this product and considering I average 10-15 dogs on and off. You might as well consider that a long term study on the effects of this product. As, I understand renal failure, it is something that would be extremely apparent, especially after ingestion of grape or raisin toxcity. Severe vomitting, loss of weight, possible high WBC count, and a pretty progressive degression of the dog. I just found this product 3 years ago, and I know of several people that have used it a lot longer than I have. It origianally, was that some people were giving the human OPC's to there dog, that encouraged the product solely for dogs and cats, that is being marketed now. If I come across any other research I would love to share, as I would hope you would also. As, for now I will continue to enjoy this marvelous product. : )