Ban On E-Collars. - Page 2

Cutaway, when "the last point" is achieved with 2 e-collars, one of them bent around the testicles of a dog, at least I am out of it - and that´s what happened ( and still happens ).

People ( at least in my country ) need to rethink: Traditionally we ( over )develop the drives of a dog, AFTERWARDS we train the dog to control its drives with a lot of pressure.

What about training different, like teaching the "out" command in less drive?
What about some points less? Doesn´t change the dog..

All of this is possible, but not common.

@susie I agree that the E has the potential to be miss used driven by ego or out of frustration. But that is a "person" problem and not a "product" problem...

 

thumbs up Cutaway. Can't find the cursor...

Once again I think this is more political then anything else...

Any tool...collar...leash...can be used for Good but it can also be used for pain and can do harm to an animal...

~Bob~

When a product has the potential to be misused by a wrong person, it's a "person" problem AND also a "product" problem.

What steps can be taken so that an E-collar doesn't fall in the hands of a bad trainer (when most are bad)?

Does a GOOD trainer really need one?

Where does that extra point come from, when everyone has access to an E-collar?

If this already is an excellent tool, why so much controversy?

Where is the drive to create an improved version, which cannot be programmed in a way to inflict pain or cause harm to the animal?

It´s always a "person" problem, never a "product" problem, but as soon as too many people start to misuse a product, it isn´t personal any more.

Personally I really regret the ban of e-collars in my country because in some cases it makes sense ( like hunt drive ), but it is not necessary in case of IPO sport, may make it easier, but not necessary.

in case of IPO sport, may make it easier, but not necessary.

absolutely agree with that

 

@Swarnendu - I just cant get down with your line of thinking... 

When a product has the potential to be misused by a wrong person, it's a "person" problem AND also a "product" problem. 
What steps can be taken so that an E-collar doesn't fall in the hands of a bad trainer (when most are bad)? 
Where is the drive to create an improved version, which cannot be programmed in a way to inflict pain or cause harm to the animal?

IMHO these questions are trying to legislate/regulate morality. Someone who is an "@$$ hat" is an @$$ regardless of what 'tool' they have in their hand. If someone really and honestly (and not stating you do) beliefs that Debbie is abussive to her dog and uses pain to teach the dog, has never trained with her and really knows nothing about her. We have all seen examples of a dog that shows signs of abusive training, and we have all probably seen more dogs that are trained with prong & E that show no negative side effects. Sure, a really good trainer has the ability to cover up pressure in their dogs, but overwhelming majority dont. 

it should be obvious that i stand in support for not allowing the ban here in the US. My "go to" punishment is withholding of a reward and verbal marking. But i also have no issue breaking out the Electric and when visitors are at the club i have several times take the collar off my dog and placed the controller in their hand and ask them to activate the collar. I then ask them to hold the collar and activate it in their hand. Every single time the are amazed that IF they can even feel the stim they only barely feel it. In my experience, this type of low level stim usage is the norm and NOT the exception. 

"In my experience, this type of low level stim usage is the norm and NOT the exception."

So, there's no problem pushing for "an improved version, which cannot be programmed in a way to inflict pain or cause harm to the animal" ?

So, there's no problem pushing for "an improved version, which cannot be programmed in a way to inflict pain or cause harm to the animal" 

Huge problem... There you are limiting the tool to no longer be used for aversion training... Although i would be good with eliminating the cheap/crap E-Collars that are sold at places like pet-smart and petco lol 

It appears to me you want to remove self responsibility basically stating that people are too stupid to know what they want or what they feel they need. Furthermore it seems to me that you limit the use of ecollar to only that of punishment and nothing else. Not to mention that you are trying to put ALL dogs on the same level of what stim is required in all circumstances??? I may be wrong in my assumptions, but that is the way i am reading your responses in this thread. 

 

 

I like all the responses so far. It is all very educational to see all of the different opinions regarding this topic.

Keep it up. 👍