Training Situation - Page 2

Where have I heard this before...strong helpers make weak dogs, weak helpers make strong dogs...

shinokami, please clarify. I'm not sure what you're saying. Thank you.

Helpers that go in there to try to make themselves look good by being badass...end up weakening the dog...while a helper who is deliberately weak to show the dog his true strength...ends up building him and making him stronger.

This of course applies to training situations and young dogs.

"Helpers that go in there to try to make themselves look good by being badass...end up weakening the dog..." In the case of my dog, as a young dog just having been introduced to the sleeve, I put him to a helper that I knew was highly experienced, and thought would be fair to my dog. Not. This helper did not like show dogs and (I did not know it at the time) took pleasure in showing up a show line dog. My dog is a very up-front, in-your-face kind of dog, but then he was young and I was inexperienced and did not know that I should have immediately pulled the dog away and put him back in the vehicle. The "helper" whipped my dog's front legs and gave him no chance to get reward. He just kept doing this. At the time, I remember wondering why he just kept on with whipping the front legs. The dog had only been on a sleeve about twice before and he was only about one year old. He took the pressure, but each approach to the sleeve, was less and less sure instead of more sure each time. I kick myself for being so stupid, but I trusted the individual and the club training record. It has taken many sessions with a more intelligent helper with no "agenda" to get him back to his natural brave and sure self. A serious mistake that almost ruined the dog!

Wanderer, I think you have a good point. I have personally seen many clubs or helpers that had biases against showline dogs. But its not only showline dogs but I have seen too many times a new dog trains at a club or place and the helper feels the need to see just how FAR they can push this dog. Often the dog goes into avoidance, and sometimes they can bring the dog back and sometimes they don't. Now, I have no problem with pushing a dog but the first time you work a dog why do you have to find his limits. If the person is visiting, a good helper (to me) will work the dog skillfully and never approach an avoidance situation. If the helper knows the dog then the dynamics are different as they may be working on somthing. But to push a dog to see where it goes is Macho Bull---t to me. Skill will always produce better than force in my thinking.

Gustav, Good observations. I guess attitude is also an important factor. It is hard for me to understand why the above trainers/helpers are around unless folks just don't know any better and allow it.

Olskool, Often hese helpers or the club itself is of some reknown and the people are intimidated to say something. If you go somewhere and big name people are there the newbie may not feel in a position to challenge what the helper is doing until it is too late. JMO