Javir - the necromancer; make this make sense - Page 2

Father male bloodline does not contain any common dog

When we talk about GSDs we talk GSD, not only work but also showline. Maybe it is too late to make use of his work genes combined with his structural/anatomical correctness, but Javir could have made a lot of difference to the show GSD in both ways, work and anatomy.
His color is sable, sable colored GSDs were incorporated into showlines very successfully and enriched the black/tan color. Javir is the standard in each and every element of his body, except the shoulder which lacks a bit of angulation (as per the standard). Javir could have been utilized by show breeders to better the temperament, work, ligaments including hocks, pasterns and so on which average showline does not fit what standars calls for in that aspect. The adverse effect on shoulder wouldn't be much of a hinder as in big offspring, when mated to the right bitches, some would take good, very good and best of both parents, say in a 1000 puppies, probably there would have been one VA or top V, plus 30-50 Vs who also probably would have been true working dogs. At the same time that would have opened up the showline gene pool for sure, hardly any close or even remote common ancestors.

Ibrahim

Ibrahim I guess you need to explain to me what you are calling "ANY COMMON DOG"  My thinking a common dog would be one that shows up in the pedigree of the vast majority of GSD's. I think that Timmy von der Bosen Narchbarschaft and his father Fero are considered "common dogs."  They are both (being father and son) in Dago vom Schwarzen Pegasus' pedigree.  And Dago is the Sire of Javir. So that would mean tha Javir's father line does have "common dogs." Again if I'm misunderstanding what you are calling "COMMON DOGS" please do let me know so that we can continue this subject with the same thinking.


Rick

Ibrahim, that was a very good explanation. I'd heard that idea before but hadn't really grasped the relevance.

I'm seeing Javir more through his daughters than sons, now, though. Who would his best sons be?

Christine

I apologize I didn't convey my message clearly. My understanding of bloodline of a dog is the male ancestors of his Sire

Javir
Dago
Marc
Erco
Cliff
Ari
Kerry
Rocco
Gildo
Valet
Arno
Edo
Claudius
Cerno
Hector
Rex
Nero
Alex
Orto
Rolf
Jackel
Beoulf
Hector
Horand
 

I think Ibrahim is referring to the direct sireline, not just the father's side of the pedigree.

Sorry, my internet connection is too slow today. So as per the bloodline HE IS UNIQUE. When considering whole pedigree, ofcourse there are some of the common dogs. Now how much effect he could have made to the genepool of the work GSD might be somewhat limited, would he have made a revolution to the work HSD gene pool? I wouldn't think so, but would he have made a valuable effect? Yes ofcourse.

To the Show GSD I strongly believe if he was utilized by smart breeders, he would have made a turning point to bothe gene pool as well as work ability.

Christine,

I think you have better chances/access to the answer more than I would, lol.

Ibrahim

Ok I see that. Although we need to look at the entire ped. that makes up the male. Unfortunately I don't see how he stops the bottle neck. Pedigree is still very similar to many working peds I've seen and is still carrying dogs that people are trying not to line breed on any farther. Of course I'm not into Show lines so he may have been a very good stud for them to use. Although I still don't see many breeders mixing Work/Show very often.

Yes Christine, yes that is what I meant, Sireline (Sire male line), so I won't make further confusion, what Christine said.

It would be nice if a breeder explaines to us how much he could widen up the gene pool of work line. It would also be nice if some one can shed light on the historical dogs he has in his Sire line that are different (not in all pedigrees).

Ibrahim