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by fawndallas on 30 October 2013 - 11:10
Hired Dog, I did not realize that. Can you go into more details why the dog would bite because the child did not feed it?
I also should clarify. As I am aware of my dog tendencies, I do not allow her to approach a child without my permission. I also watch for children to come running up to her. She sniffs for the ice cream; if there is none, she refocuses on me for next instruction.
I also should clarify. As I am aware of my dog tendencies, I do not allow her to approach a child without my permission. I also watch for children to come running up to her. She sniffs for the ice cream; if there is none, she refocuses on me for next instruction.
by Hired Dog on 30 October 2013 - 12:10
Fawn...there are underlying reasons why the dog is acting this way towards strangers/kids, etc. We dont know what these reasons are...could it be genetic fear aggression? Maybe, but, the point I always stress is, I like to err on the side of caution and since I have never seen nor know the dog, I always tell people...do NOT allow others to feed your dog. IF that dog has genetic fear issues, it may in time accept strangers that have food to approach it. It may even walk up to strangers to get food, but, not everyone has or wants to give a dog food and thats where the problem comes in...what happens when the dog is still fearful of strangers and this stranger now has no food and the dog approached him/her looking for some? Stranger sticks their arm out to pat the dog thinking thats why the dog came and stranger gets nailed by dog for touching it.
Again, err on the side of caution and feed your own dog when training.
Again, err on the side of caution and feed your own dog when training.
by cborso22 on 30 October 2013 - 12:10
@hireddog, thanks for this recommendation..in the past i have always been the one to give him treats bc i wanted him to think all good things came from us(another thing i had read to do), so this goes in hand with that...hopefully more positive exposure will help and ill continue to look into training options.
by Hundmutter on 30 October 2013 - 13:10
A suggestion (no guarantees, but you may think it worth a try),
if you can bring the necessary 'ingredients' together ...
Do you know, have in your extended family, whatever, a slightly
older child or two that you can rely on to behave sensibly and do
as you ask ? Say about 8 yrs and up.
You presumably still have an indoor crate available because of
the resting after his surgery ?
Set aside some short, regular times, when the kid(s) just sit in the
room, with him in his crate, and ignore him; not approaching the crate, not
staring in at him, and instead, just playing and talking quietly among
themselves / to you / watching TV. You should vary the order in which they
(and any adults) or the dog are brought into the room, but on days
when you bring the dog in after the children, do not allow any interaction
but put him straight in the crate. In this way he can get used to childrens
sounds, smells etc and realise they are no threat to him. As most won't
be, in normal circumstances; if he gets a sound grounding in that, any
later departure with a child doing something 'sudden' ought to be easier
for him to cope with. You can take opportunities, when he settles without
barking or growling at the kids, to feed him your food rewards. You may also
find the distraction qualities of a kong or chewy useful. Longer-term, and only
once you are more than certain he is no longer taking any notice of them,
can you start to allow him out and the children to gradually interact with
him - which hopefully will coincide with him reaching the end of that 'fear-
stage', too.
In other circumstances, although I agree you should not be making too much of
a 'thing' of retreating from going near every child, for the reasons the others gave,
especially Joanro in her post, I would just gently steer the dog in a different
direction. You need to be particularly alert and quick reacting to other peoples'
approaches in order to manage this in as unfussy a way as possible.
Hope this is helpful - good luck.
if you can bring the necessary 'ingredients' together ...
Do you know, have in your extended family, whatever, a slightly
older child or two that you can rely on to behave sensibly and do
as you ask ? Say about 8 yrs and up.
You presumably still have an indoor crate available because of
the resting after his surgery ?
Set aside some short, regular times, when the kid(s) just sit in the
room, with him in his crate, and ignore him; not approaching the crate, not
staring in at him, and instead, just playing and talking quietly among
themselves / to you / watching TV. You should vary the order in which they
(and any adults) or the dog are brought into the room, but on days
when you bring the dog in after the children, do not allow any interaction
but put him straight in the crate. In this way he can get used to childrens
sounds, smells etc and realise they are no threat to him. As most won't
be, in normal circumstances; if he gets a sound grounding in that, any
later departure with a child doing something 'sudden' ought to be easier
for him to cope with. You can take opportunities, when he settles without
barking or growling at the kids, to feed him your food rewards. You may also
find the distraction qualities of a kong or chewy useful. Longer-term, and only
once you are more than certain he is no longer taking any notice of them,
can you start to allow him out and the children to gradually interact with
him - which hopefully will coincide with him reaching the end of that 'fear-
stage', too.
In other circumstances, although I agree you should not be making too much of
a 'thing' of retreating from going near every child, for the reasons the others gave,
especially Joanro in her post, I would just gently steer the dog in a different
direction. You need to be particularly alert and quick reacting to other peoples'
approaches in order to manage this in as unfussy a way as possible.
Hope this is helpful - good luck.
by bebo on 30 October 2013 - 14:10
if i'm not mistaken, your dog comes from a good breeder and trainer. first thing i'd do is check in with her.
by laura271 on 30 October 2013 - 14:10
"I called a local trainer for a quote, so well see what happens with that..i just really can't spend hundreds on training right at this moment."
I understand that you feel pressed financially due to Vader's care. However, I don't think you can safely resolve human aggression without guidance from a trainer who has a lot of experience working with aggressive dogs and can actually read a dog (this seems strangely difficult to find). I don't view Vader's growling as a bad thing- he is clearly communicating that he's uncomfortable with children approaching; this is preferable to him exploding into aggression without giving any warning signs. He's telling you that there's an issue here that you need to work on with him. When he growls, what are his other physical signs- hackling, tail up, ears down, intense staring, etc.? Setting up a "play date" with your human aggressive dog and a friend's child just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. What do you do if Vader is like my male GSD and refuses to accept treats from people? Or if Vader accepts the treat and then nails the kid? My male GSD has zero use for strangers of all ages - I never regret the time and money that we spent working with a professional trainer. No matter how much money the trainer cost, it was far less than a lawsuit would have cost us if Bosco had bit someone or the absolute gut wrenching anguish if he had seriously injured my neighbour's two young children (not to mention that he would have been PTS for biting a person). We never could have successfully worked through Bosco's aggression on our own.
Just my one cent Canadian of unsolicited advice.
I understand that you feel pressed financially due to Vader's care. However, I don't think you can safely resolve human aggression without guidance from a trainer who has a lot of experience working with aggressive dogs and can actually read a dog (this seems strangely difficult to find). I don't view Vader's growling as a bad thing- he is clearly communicating that he's uncomfortable with children approaching; this is preferable to him exploding into aggression without giving any warning signs. He's telling you that there's an issue here that you need to work on with him. When he growls, what are his other physical signs- hackling, tail up, ears down, intense staring, etc.? Setting up a "play date" with your human aggressive dog and a friend's child just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. What do you do if Vader is like my male GSD and refuses to accept treats from people? Or if Vader accepts the treat and then nails the kid? My male GSD has zero use for strangers of all ages - I never regret the time and money that we spent working with a professional trainer. No matter how much money the trainer cost, it was far less than a lawsuit would have cost us if Bosco had bit someone or the absolute gut wrenching anguish if he had seriously injured my neighbour's two young children (not to mention that he would have been PTS for biting a person). We never could have successfully worked through Bosco's aggression on our own.
Just my one cent Canadian of unsolicited advice.
by Dog1 on 30 October 2013 - 14:10
Check your inbox.
by fawndallas on 30 October 2013 - 15:10
Thank you all for the education. Please OP, listen to them. They are more experienced in this area. For my pup, I raised her from the day she was born, and knew her temperament and know how far I can push and in what area.
by Nans gsd on 30 October 2013 - 15:10
I would DEFINITELY seek professional help particularly with the kid thing; and find a trainer that deals in aggression not just like a "petsmart" trainer or Petco trainer. You have a working line dog that needs professional help. Good luck Nan
by Ruger1 on 30 October 2013 - 15:10
More I think about, I would advise you to sell something of material value to obtain the money to pay reputable trainer..Things can be replaced in time, but your GSD companion can't be,,And if you don't get professional help or treat the dog like a loaded pistol 24/7 you will eventual lose him..
Deanna,,,
Deanna,,,
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