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by Ibrahim on 10 September 2013 - 17:09
The topic title does not suggest enough seriousness, also content is one sided blind view, incomplete and therefore incorrect. If you wish to turn it into a serious discussion here's a more rational view
In general working line GSD is far better than the show GSD in regards to work potential
In general show GSD is far better than work GSD in regards to structure/conformation and type
There can be dogs found contrary to the above two facts but they are not the general theme. A work line enthusiast may deny weaknesses in his/her favorite type, same goes for a show enthusiast, but that is childish and will not benefit the breed in any way, it will just create more polarization.
Work line breeders should address problems in their lines, Show breeders should address problems in their lines, to not be aware of those problems is a big problem in itself, to blindly deny or look away from those problems is a sin and stupidity.
Plz don't mind my vocabulary I mean no disrespect.
Ibrahim
In general working line GSD is far better than the show GSD in regards to work potential
In general show GSD is far better than work GSD in regards to structure/conformation and type
There can be dogs found contrary to the above two facts but they are not the general theme. A work line enthusiast may deny weaknesses in his/her favorite type, same goes for a show enthusiast, but that is childish and will not benefit the breed in any way, it will just create more polarization.
Work line breeders should address problems in their lines, Show breeders should address problems in their lines, to not be aware of those problems is a big problem in itself, to blindly deny or look away from those problems is a sin and stupidity.
Plz don't mind my vocabulary I mean no disrespect.
Ibrahim
by Sunsilver on 10 September 2013 - 17:09
In general show GSD is far better than work GSD in regards to structure/conformation and type
Ibrahim, that, too, is a matter of opinion and debate.
Ibrahim, that, too, is a matter of opinion and debate.
by Ibrahim on 10 September 2013 - 17:09
Yes, all I said is debatable
by Ibrahim on 10 September 2013 - 17:09
If we accept to stand on the same ground then we can save effort. Ground being the GSD standard not what each likes and wishes for. Reading the standard I come out with:
Show is closer to what standard says about structure (in general)
Work is closer to what standard says about temperament (in general)
Take out extremes from both, I am talking about the general population.
Ibrahim
Show is closer to what standard says about structure (in general)
Work is closer to what standard says about temperament (in general)
Take out extremes from both, I am talking about the general population.
Ibrahim
by susie on 10 September 2013 - 18:09
People don´t want to debate, they want to be right,
and as soon as someone does have another opinion people become personal.
Just my personal experience on this board...
and as soon as someone does have another opinion people become personal.
Just my personal experience on this board...
by Sunsilver on 10 September 2013 - 18:09
[sigh] Yup, Suzie!
by Haz on 10 September 2013 - 18:09
I do blame the event, that such dogs are promoted as not only GSD but supposedly the ideal GSD is pretty blameworthy.
People like to forget that we are talking about a workingline breed
^^^^^
Ill agree on this point!
It doesnt matter if its a conformation show, would the bitework have been significantly better at a trial with the same dogs?
I watched V1 to about V21 saw 2 that were half decent...mentioned them in the thread. Not by any means breedworthy if you where to go on that performance though.
Ibrahim I want to talk about work, Working line dogs that are capable of top level work in general have perfect conformation. Form follows function not the other way around. If the dog can work at a high level on a consistent basis without breaking down its confirmation is perfect.
Look at Pacco I think he is V13 or around that, bitework not too bad but the conformation on him clearly shows a dog that wont be quick, powerful or agile. Nor does he appear to be able to sustain physical effort. Based on watching him move. Conformation should not be determined by trotting around a ring, it should be determined by the dogs ability to work on an ongoing basis. No disrespect, just my opinion sir.
People like to forget that we are talking about a workingline breed
^^^^^
Ill agree on this point!
It doesnt matter if its a conformation show, would the bitework have been significantly better at a trial with the same dogs?
I watched V1 to about V21 saw 2 that were half decent...mentioned them in the thread. Not by any means breedworthy if you where to go on that performance though.
Ibrahim I want to talk about work, Working line dogs that are capable of top level work in general have perfect conformation. Form follows function not the other way around. If the dog can work at a high level on a consistent basis without breaking down its confirmation is perfect.
Look at Pacco I think he is V13 or around that, bitework not too bad but the conformation on him clearly shows a dog that wont be quick, powerful or agile. Nor does he appear to be able to sustain physical effort. Based on watching him move. Conformation should not be determined by trotting around a ring, it should be determined by the dogs ability to work on an ongoing basis. No disrespect, just my opinion sir.
by Ibrahim on 10 September 2013 - 18:09
Haz, do you agree to and accept the breed standard?
If your answer is no then there is no point in this debate.
If you accept it then I have one question for you:
Why does the standard describe the conformation of the GSD ? Front angulation, hind angulation, back, proportions etc.
Ibrahim
If your answer is no then there is no point in this debate.
If you accept it then I have one question for you:
Why does the standard describe the conformation of the GSD ? Front angulation, hind angulation, back, proportions etc.
Ibrahim
by Haz on 10 September 2013 - 18:09
Here is my opinion on the standard: http://maxvstephanitz.homestead.com/mvs_conformation.html
Ill say that there are several notable working dogs with V rating. Yet they look nothing like the dogs in the Kassel vids.
Ill say that there are several notable working dogs with V rating. Yet they look nothing like the dogs in the Kassel vids.
by susie on 11 September 2013 - 14:09
Haz: " Ill say that there are several notable working dogs with V rating. Yet they look nothing like the dogs in the Kassel vids. "
Do you think that there is a different rating system for working lines? Or are you talking about different colors ?
You bought a German Shepherd puppy this year after selling a Dutchie - your first German ?
Ah, forget it, this discussion is as old as this board....
Have a nice day, and enjoy your dog! Hopefully he or she will be everything you are dreaming about ( honestly!)
Do you think that there is a different rating system for working lines? Or are you talking about different colors ?
You bought a German Shepherd puppy this year after selling a Dutchie - your first German ?
Ah, forget it, this discussion is as old as this board....
Have a nice day, and enjoy your dog! Hopefully he or she will be everything you are dreaming about ( honestly!)
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