USA or WDA? - Page 2

Nia, I am not going to go head-to-head with you, but I have to mention here that I have been in the sport a lot longer than you have and have titled a lot more dogs under a lot more judges, both SV and USA, than you have. Therefor I think I know of what I speak when I object to the notion that my scores under SV judges may have benne given to me "like candy" instead of rightfully earned! I have seen accurate and inaccurate judging from nearly every judge I can think of from time to time. None of them claim to be perfect on every given day and every assignment. I have seen a USA judge bestow a SchH 1 degree on a dog and handler tean that never performed so much as the build-up to the sit in motion excersize, even critiquing the excersize that was not performed. (Marysville SC- '88 or 89) I have seen a USA judge critique and score a SchH 3 track that only contained 3 turns and 4 legs during their last assignment as a USA apprentice and still be confirmed as a full judge a few weeks later. (Banfield '99) Fortunately the presiding SV judge (Wilms) intervened and called for a new track for the next morning instead of just calling the track invalid and diqualifying the team because the stupid club tracklayer (Apprentice Banfield) didn't lay a regulation track... and no one in the club (Hunde Arbeit SC 1999) so much as noticed! Bwah ha ha ha ha I have seen a host of USA judges score a club SchH 1 routine as critically as if it WERE a World Championship... REGULARLY! I have also seen SV judges go a little easy on a first-time handler in a club trial for their first SchH 1, and that same judge knock 2 pts. off for a handler taking two walking steps on the running stand-in-motion at a USA SChH 3 Championship, thereby deciding between the winner and 2nd place teams that were tied in protection and tracking! (Bowling Green, KY '88) My big gripe with many USA judges is that they do not consider the pradiqat (gross misspelling): the overall picture of dog and handler as a harmonious team, joyful in the work, in their scoring. This is, IMO, an ESSENTIAL part of the sport and the direction we want to go in our breeding program, not to mention necessary for encouraging novices to continue in the sport event when they fail in a trial. Too many USA judges are only about point-point-point... not the whole picture. This, to me, is an absence of sensitivity/awareness of the true temperament of the breed complete INSENSITIVIY to the participants. No good comes of beating up someone who is doing the best they can so that they leave the field with their tail between their legs...never to return. I haven't seen an SV judge beat anybody up in a club trial since the eighties. "Leave 'em wanting more!" is the order of the day around here. Besides... What do we want in our sport? Joyful dogs and proud handlers? or ROBOTS!? That's my little schpiel. I'll get off my soapbox for now if its alright with you. I just hop putting my opinions in writing in this venue doesn't cost me points next time I step on a USA trial field. LOL BTW: Next time you see SV Frank Mensing hand out ANY score "like candy" you let me know. I'll take the photo of him giving Cheetah and I a V in the FH that half that year's USA team members failed that day off my wall. See you 'round the trial fields and show rings. Shelley

shelley, could you please explain more about 7) After 2008 GSDCA/WDA/AKC will be the only club officiallyy recognized by the SV/WUSV, and so the only org. eligible to send a team to the WUSV World Championship. i was wondering why this is? john

I made a point of referring people to the sources where they can clearly see the facts for themselves. I NEVER said "all" SV judges-- no one would ever call :rank Mensing, or Doug Deacon Santa judges. HOWEVER, if one goes to the WDA posted Trial Results, as I referenced, they will see precisely what I referred to and the judges to whom it applies. Simple. No need for a "head to head" at all. That's why I refer people to find out the facts for themselves. I do commend you, though, for giving specifics, specific references and naming names. :-) I did not claim USA was perfect, either. :-) Nia

Sounds like a truly sad training situation in Pennsylvania, if your statements are accurate. The professional aspect, I agree, is a detriment. Sad. Once again, MONEY is the root of all evil. Nia

Nia said...[[[USA does not recognize WDA scorebooks. This policy was implemented in 2003. See GBM Minutes 2003]]] I asked USA when I got my SchH1 at a WDA trial under and SV Judge. They said YES the title can be transferred into my USA book by the WDA recorder. They told me to send both books to the WDA. I asked why I just didn't send both books to USA and they said WDA has record of the trial on file so they must enter the information. It WILL be recognized! THIS IS WHAT USA TOLD ME TO DO!

The WDA on the other hand will recognize a USA scorebook as proof/record of the title. Therefore a title recieved at a USA trial will also be recorded by the WDA into the WDA book.

USCA HAS to recognise a Title earned under any SV judge. They were FORCED to do that by the SV. Debby

Nia, I must correct your misquote... "money is the root of all evil" The direct quote from the Bible is: The LOVE of money is the root of all kinds of evil. A HUGE DIFFERENCE! Debby

First off; I was not quoting the Bible, or any other work. When I make literary references, they tend to be classical, not biblical. :-) WDA scorebooks are not recognized- period. What you claim or believe you were told is not contrary to that. I have provided reference to the authority on the matter. It is there in black and white. Those who prefer to mislead, or be misled are on their own. The fact remains that you cannot use your WDA scorebook in a USA trial--that's why the SV-awarded title has to be recorded in a USA scorebook. Think about it... meanwhile, you can enter USA club and regional trials with DVG, GSSCC, AWDF, AWMA, etc. scorebooks with no problem, because they are recognized by USA.. Again, people check out the issues on the USA website. All the information is there. It even has a search engine for the Rules & Regulations, as well as the bylaws.

Sorry if my post seemed to be curt. I have been so aggravated with people who refuse to learn the facts for themselves that I forgot some newer to the sport may not understand the difference between recognizing a "title", and recognizing a "scorebook". I'd be happy to try to clarufy to anyone who actually wants/needs clarification of the difference. Rude Shouters extolling their confusion, however, can just keep yelling.