Musings on the dog culture in America - Page 2

I am born and raised German, living in the United States for three years now and I can honestly say that I still have a hard time to understand the differences. Especially when it comes up to Spay/Neuter, all the laws banning dogs from public places, and the restrictions you have to deal with.
That being said, I can see a shift in the German pet culture with a lot of similarities to the US.

For what it's worth. I'm thankful for the way I have been raised.

Me Too!

Bee,
You're right about finding examples of snarling dogs- my point was about more mainstream media. Movies like Beethoven, Airbud, those Chihuahua movies, movies where dogs talk, etc. My general point is that the general populace views dogs as things they aren't- namely seeing them as humans or possessing human traits. And, I feel, that this is the reason that most pet dogs aren't given a fulfilling job for them, but are (as I said) more snuggly, furry, children to the owners.

The general point was to see if this has led to dogs which desire to have a purpose, like the GSD, to become dissatisfied as being a pet (with no job), which would lead to destructive behavior, and this happening frequently enough within the populace to end up labeling such dogs are potential problems. You can see this with the GSD, rotties, doberman's, and pitbulls (which are actually very good dogs but have such an incredible stigma). In another thread, there was a post about service dogs for the blind, and how dogs like the GSD aren't even really recommended but are actually warned against. Such things seem to propogate stigmas which were very likely to be caused by humans anyway. At least, that's how it seems to me.

UschiRun, 

Do you want to know what I think has had the greatest impact on dog culture in America? The introduction to crate training, born via the affordability and portability of a modern crate. It is the current mainstream acceptance and popularity of crate "training" for dogs which probably began sometime in the 1980's and is now a "given", and regarded as acceptable by all corners. This simple fact enables a whole different behavior set allowable by owners with its own set of variables.

I don't have more time right now to expound on this theory of mine. But take a moment, and think about it. Also remember for the gray haired amongst us, the good ol' days have a way of wearing down to a pleasant patina dulling sometimes, the experience of an original glare. 

Hmmm ... I think that is a PART of the picture, too, Bee - although
I suspect crating has contributed to the general anthropomorphic
and instant satisfaction trends, rather than been a CAUSE.
THIS ol' grey head remembers instances of dogs being 'babied' by
some types of owners long before the use of crates got common.
Indeed, many of those people would have been first to recoil in horror
at the idea of putting their little one in even a playpen, let alone a box-
kennel.

I used to be one of the most stoic people when it came up to crates. Gosh, I had fights upon fights with American dog owners over crates because I couldn't understand how people would lock their dogs away while they went to work for 8 hours and than again lock them away during night. That would make a total of 16 + hours sitting in a crate each and every day.... personally, I felt it is abusive.

While I have come to realize that crates are invaluable tools I still feel that 16 + hours in a crate is abusive.
And than people wonder why they can't get a handle on their dog or why they can't "trust" their dogs outside. That being said, I'm a stay at home wife running a boarding business out of our home. So I'm home all day long, every day. The boarding dogs are only crated at night, to give my own dogs a break from the craziness. Before that I have worked at a Doggy Daycare and managed over 15 dogs at the same time. My upbringing has taught me how to deal with large packs of dogs. Tough dogs at that. We never had any crates in the house. At the house we used to have three outdoor kennels for the brood bitches that came down with litters, one whelping room in the back of the garage, another whelping room in the basement.
We had five dogs in the house. All intact males and never had to crate a dog, EVER. We did use the dog trailer at times but other than that, the dogs went where we went. No dog was ever crated at the house and that is just the way I was raised and the way I tend to handle it today. If I go somewhere, my dogs are with me. The dogs are never crated longer than 5 or 6 hours a day IF I crate them at all and while I love it as a tool I would never even dream of abusing a crate and lock a dog up for 16 hours a day.

A crate is good for a dog to retreat. If a dog wants downtime and to be alone, they retreat into their crate.
One thing I have learned during my obedience lessons with a really good handler is Crate Games but that is completely different from Crate Training and Crate Games are simply awesome.

Other than that, I cannot stand when people say "He's crated to keep him safe from himself."

The culture is completely different and I'm still butting heads with people about common dog sense at times.

Baerenfangs, I'm curious to know just HOW it's different, other than the use of crates. For instance, I know in Europe that vets don't push for spaying and neutering the way they do here. Yet there doesn't seem to be the same problem with unwanted puppies. Are people just more knowledgeable and responsible?  What about the attitude towards training? I've been told that's really different, too.

Tina Barber, the founder of the Shiloh shepherd breed was born in Germany. When she came to the States, she was shocked to see people being dragged down the sidewalk by their dogs (Mind you, bother her father and her grandmother trained dogs, so she was perhaps more used to seeing well trained dogs than most!)

issue on crates. 

not everyone owning dogs has the space to just let dogs go where they want as many live in cities, etc.... not everyone has someone around 24/7 or can have there dog with them 24/7. so if i buy a puppy i should leave it to run my house for extended periods of time?just leave it to its own devices to develop bad habits.


or another ex:  training dogs/pups with undesired behavior issues in the home such as trash raiding, chewing, on furniture, counter surfing, etc... there is something called- the law of intermittent reinforcement. so if the owner is not present to correct a behavior or interfere in the behavior the dog should be confined in a manor that it cant engage in said behavior. We all know that all directed training is lost and has to go through many unnecessary repetitions to extinguish such behavior if the dog is allowed to successfully engage in said inappropriate behavior.

So maybe in the perfect world where everyone had a pack to let the dogs and pups run in that would never develop and undesired habits and have tons of land that the dogs would never venture off of (and none would ever venture onto)and or the owner could be present 24/7 we would never need a crate.

With that said. my older trust worthy dogs are allowed to roam my home at will. as they all have a routine as well as have learned through years of training there appropriate behaviors in the home. every other dogs is kenneled while at work and at night period.Even with dogs that have jobs undesired behaviors can erupt. even if training occurs 6 days a week. ob,tracking, pr(normally only 2-3 times/decoy availability) it doesnt mean in your absence they cant develop bad habits. 




 




 

I caught one of my dogs red-pawed with a cracker box she'd filched off the counter yesterday. It was one of the few times in her adult life that she got banished to her crate as punishment. She came home as a 12 week puppy already crate trained, and goes to her crate on her own at night, as soon as I go to my bedroom.

When she was very, very sick after the vet botched her spay, I couldn't get her to LEAVE her crate, as that was where she felt safest.

I did crate her as a puppy when I was not able to supervise her. She still did her fair share of puppy stuff such as chewing up rugs and books and raiding trash cans!  I think she was about a year old when I was able to allow her the freedom of the house at night, or when I went out.

@Sunsilver: there is much more regulation than in the US. Cities have started to make a written test and the BH mandatory if you are a new dog owner.

If you want to own a list dog, you have to pass a background check, take a written test, the dog has to go through a temperament test and on top you have to pass the BH and not to forget the dog tax which can be quite expensive for list dogs (dangerous dog breeds). It's different from State to State, County to County and City to City what exactly they want you to do.

We have a much higher density of dogs. We have responsible, irresponsible dog owners, abusive owners, hoarders, byb's just as in the US but not on a large scale as in the US.

One major difference is, in the US dogs will be banned from public places, where in Germany they would just try to solve it with more regulations they put on dog owners.

I have made the same experience. Roaming dogs, tons of strays, dumped pets, etc. Specifically in the military family community it is a very common sight to dump pets during PCS season. In Germany you barely get to see a roaming dog or stray. As a matter of fact, I've never even encountered roaming dogs or strays, even though I grew up in a village and then in the country.
I had just pcs'ed to the US and lived here for two days when I picked up my first stray in the US... so yeah it was quite a culture shock.

And one thing will never change... it's the Flexi Lead Pet Owner calling out "He's friendly" which would be "Der tut nix" in German. You've got those everywhere.

As for training possibilities. In my area, where I'm from, there are over 20 Clubs in a one hour radius. In the US, even Clubs seem to act more as a business rather than a club. In Germany, my club charged a 20 Euro Club fee per year and Agility, Obedience Classes were 5 Euro for members per season and IPO was basically free of charge. The clubs are not all SV clubs. There also is VDH, SWHV, Boxer Clubs, Doberman Clubs etc. but all offer IPO.
It is not uncommon for people to visit other clubs and you don't have to call or make contact to come in, you just go, show up, sit down, have a beer and chat. Most clubs don't even charge a "Guest Fee" if you come to work your dog, it's up to you to pay into the "Kaffee Kasse".
Than there are Clubs that charge 0.50 Cents per helper session.

That being said, there are so called "Hundeschulen" that have jumped on the train wagon and charge astronomical prices to train your dog in basic obedience.

Out here, you are lucky if you have a club in two or three hour distance. Club fees are astronomical and it takes much longer to train your dog. I can simply not afford the prices out here to title my own dogs. In Germany, I'd be having a three on the dogs by now, here I'm not even ready to put a 1 on them. The tracking land is not as available. While we live in the country and as rural as it can get, you can't take them on off leash hikes as I used to do in Germany.

The contradictions in this country about dogs in general is mind blowing.

As for spay and neuter... I think it's crazy. Instead of educating people, it's made easy by spay and neuter and called "education". In my opinion spay and neuter has nothing to do with education. It's the lazy way out. It's made easy, people don't have to take responsibility and do not want to deal with the mess of a dog in heat.
In Germany it's the exact opposite. You don't spay and neuter unless there is a medical emergency. Especially in the working dog community (i.e. Schutzhund, SAR etc) it is looked down upon and viewed as intrusive. That's another hot topic I was seriously butting heads with people.

Another huge difference is the Rescue World in the US.
I've never been called a murderer before because I've got dogs from breeders. Because I own dogs that were responsibly bred I have killed dogs in a Shelter and it doesn't matter that I am not even from this country or that I have dogs for a specific purpose. It also doesn't matter that I foster dogs for a local GSD Rescue and placed almost close to a dozen dogs by now. I'm still a Killer, which is why I no longer deal with the crazy folks and only deal with specific people.

There is a lot of similarities between the two countries but also a lot of differences that can only be understood if you actually live here and experience it yourself. The same goes for gun owning and the gun debate. Most Germans cannot understand for the world why Americans are so crazy about their guns. Same thing, different topic. LOL

The attitude toward training... more and more people call for training without e-collars (which you can legally own but it's illegal to use them) and prong collar. Especially online people don't want these kind of methods any longer.
Schutzhund people have to justify themselves to the public and constantly have to fight legislation to ban certain aspects or the sport completely. In Vienna they had a campaign to ban Schutzund and so people try to proof that Schutzhund is nothing but a fun sport and has nothing to do with training civil dogs which is also one reason why the sport has been watered down a lot and why a lot of people work in prey drive. They don't want the dogs to go after the helper, they want the dogs to go after the sleeve and to be completely sleeve oriented.

Another big difference is limited and full registration and how intrusive some breeders are.
If I buy a dog, the dog is mine, period. I decide whether or not I stay in contact with the breeder, I buy the breeders dog, not a relationship that has been forced onto me via a contract.
Only one dog I bought had a contract and that was limited to "You pay me and you get the dog in exchange."
If I buy a puppy I know the risks involved and personally I can't stand all those warranties and guaranties on dogs, simply because you can never guarantee it anyways. It's outlandish and I would never even buy a dog with one of those contracts and especially not on a limited registration and I don't care if I never title the dog. I buy the dog, I want a full registration. But I'm old school, to me a handshake contract means something and if I give you my word, I'll keep it, which has gotten me into a hot mess over here and resultet in a fundraiser to buy a dog back for more than double I had sold it for.