Titers -vs- Vacines - Page 2

sueincc- Let me clarify - the vet was not against Vacines - she said as we move forward no more vaccinations and we can not use Heartguard - she suggested something else ..........I am going back next week and have a lot of smart questions for her. What breaks down the immune system in dogs? And what do we do to boost the immune system?

Be careful. Not everything that you read in Whole Dog Journal is correct. Also prolonged use of corticosteroids has dangerous side effects. Get another opinion. Best wishes, Jonah

jdh, I am glad to know someone here has a realistic opinion of the WDJ. It is making its owner a lot of money, but it is filled with many articles that are pure crap. Sadly, most people do not do their homework on buying a dog, nor do they educate themselves on other dog issues either. I enjoy your rational posts. Nice to see.

jdh - I don't get it - Pred. is the only treatment for this disease.........per Dr. Bowersox - and all of the others - when you say "prolonged" - they are saying 2 months - is that long - I don't know anymore.......I have done 4 consults - and lab values and joint taps and $3,000.00 later I think I am following the correct protocol and you are scaring the crap out of me.......my dog appears to be rebounding and doing well - but do you have any other suggestions = - - and are you accusing me of not doing homework - wow I have owned the best GSD's from the best kennels in the world - this is the first baby that has had this problem and I am going to see him well with a happy life if it is the last thing I do - I looked at stats and they say he can lead a wonderful life - just no running with me anymore - impact is hard on the joints.................but let me know what you are thinking.........

Renz, do what you think it right for you and your dog. That's the best any of us can do.

Renz, I do not wish to make anything difficult for you. I merely try to encourage anyone using certain drugs that can have a negative effect when used as a long term treatment (2 months is probably ok) to seek alternate therapies as soon as possible. As I am not a vet I cannot recommend a course of treatment, but I hope to caution people against what is sometimes bad medicine. I do not have any experience with this particular malady, but if as you say Pred has worked and will only be used as needed, things seem to be looking up. Years ago I had a vet order Pred given daily for an indeterminate time to an 8 year old female w/ osteo arthritis. This went on for YEARS. When I switched vets 3 years later, I was told of the side effects and potential damage. We switched her to Cosequin DM w/ monthly Adequan injections. The change was AMAZING. It was as if we had turned back the clock 5 yewars on her. I wish that I had known sooner and given her the extra years of quality living. I trust that you are making a conceted effort to do the best for your boy, and I hope that it all works out. Best Wishes, Jonah

My pet peeve is the new drug call 'Revolution" that vets are trying to sell u, U will never convince me that chemicals that can kill heartworms, fleas, ear mites and intestinal worms all in one tube is good for any dogs pancreas, liver, gall bladder or endrocrine system. When I sell a pup I write in BIG BOLD LETTERS,,,,,,NO REVOLUTION on my gsds. and I explain, The more chemicals we allow to get into our dogs the more problems it creates and Chlorox and chemical use in our homes are a vast contributor to ill health over a time......The use of allergy shots shuts down the immune system and will not let it work on itself or repair itself and usually there are other holistic remedies we all need to use,,,,,

Yellowrose, I have to respectfully disagree with your evaluation of desensitizing allergic dogs with the use of "shots". Atopic dogs with allergies have immune systems that are overactive and attack substances such as pollens that are not otherwise dangerous to them. Their immune systems incorrectly recognize these allergens as being harmful to them and they then produce antibodies against them and those antibodies in turn produce histamines. In humans histamine receptors are located in the linings of the nose, eyes, sinuses and airways. Dogs' receptors are located in various locations in their skin. People sneeze and cough, dogs scratch. Desenitizing shots are not chemicals, it is a serum made from a small amount of their allergens extended with normal saline. The shots do not shut down the immune sytem; they challenge it to maunufacture antibodies against the allergen(s)so their bodies build up an immunity to them and no longer recognize them as foreign. No histamines produced means no more atopy.....Mother Nature's version of benedryl. I am with you and I appreciate the value of holistic remedies. In many cases, they work well, but they do not work quickly. They are not appropriate when you are dealing with a lifethreatening condition due to the length of time it takes for most holistic remedies to affect any improvement. Allergies are a nusance disease for the dog, rarely lifethreating. So I decided to go that way initially with my atopic dog. I tried holistic remedies and natural homemade diets for for almost 2 years and it did nothing to decrease his scratching or reduce the incidences of secondary bacterial infections. I finally gave in, had him skin tested and started his desensitizing program. The shots started to work in about 3 months and he was free from scratching by the end of the first year. Keflex cured the bacterial infections that failed to respond to holistic medicine. No more hot spots. Steroids are the drug of choice for immune related arthritis. Long term steroid therapy(meaning many months or even years) can cause profound side effects. Using steroids for a few months at a time in a reduce dosage regiment will not be a problem for most dogs. We tend to equate dogs, their diseases and treatments with human models forgetting that a large breed dog has an averagae lifespan of 11 years compared to a woman in the US today who is expected to live 80 years. If I were Renz I too would be following the advice of an expert veterinarian and giving this dog steroids. BTW we have only one holistic veterinary practioner within a 100 miles radius and she won't allow dogs in her office - says their smell up her waiting room and that upsets her cats LOL. I had to consult with her via the telephone.

Blitzen, Thank you for writing a correct post about allergies, the immune system and steroids. The lack of understanding here sometimes is beyond belief. Jdh is correct in having some small concern, but in this situation, given what we know, it is a reasonable treatement. Others who are posting here would do well to learn a little more about biology, toxicology, pathophysiology etc. It helps no one to post such incorrect information as is often posted. For what it is worth, again, the body NATURALLY produces steroids, including prednisone. When there is an inflammatory condition, it is often absolutely the drug of choice. Over a long, long term (years) prolonged use of steroids may produce other side effects. All things we take can be considered a toxin. What people do not understand is the fact that it is the dose and how the body assimulates, distributes, metabolizes and eliminates any given substance that determines detrimental or positive effects. Paracelsus (1493-1541) said : "All substances are poisons; there is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison from a remedy". This is exactly the case with prednisone and other steroids. Further, without chemicals like Revolution, Heartgard, other antiparasite drugs, our dogs would suffer needlessly. Learning how chemicals and drugs are created and produced and tested would be enlightening to some. And without chlorine, actually life in this and other countries would be much more bleak. Can chlorine harm? Absolutely if it is misused in the wrong concentration. But as we all should know, it has many, many uses that enable us to live and live a safer life.

I am not against Heartguard or other singular doses but Revolution has produced some bad reactions on may dogs because in the long term that many chemical dispense into a system is not good.. I use all the meds that do the prevention but the use of allergy shots first on very young dogs should not be done until u try the immune system taking care and correcting it self with diet first...many a vet start a young pup at 1 year old who show the scratchy sympton or a hot spot on allergy testing and say we have to start these shots and the dog is on them the rest of its life, I assume from what one gentleman just told me, He said if he starts the sets of shots then he has to continue. Ive never had a dog that I had to do this to.....but some of the pups have successfully gone a raw diets and never looked back...no Im not a scientist and I read constantly and study this and thats why Im on the board,.//thanks and i will continue to look at what effects the dog after done by the vet......on the hands experience from owners tell me a lot of things reading sophpisticated reports done tell me...I agree there are some extreme cases that the allery treatment set forth with the serums injected to produce the required immune in the dog works but this is to be done on an individual basis. when all else has failed , then if that relieves the scratching and the dog has no other reactions then it would be a go......no two dogs are alike,,,,,we have so many breeding involved in a pedigree that care genes so intricate only God can unravel it.......Hows the weather today Blitzen? U see the people in COlorado are buried in the snow....