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by Felloffher on 11 April 2013 - 19:04
Yep, get rid of the pads and start taking him outside every 30 minutes to releave himself and when he does give him praise.
by Not2old2lrn on 11 April 2013 - 23:04
No food or water before bed time. Put a toy in the crate.
by Rouge on 12 April 2013 - 00:04
A little more info. I do have his crate made smaller by a divide. There is just enough room for him to lay down and no more excess than that. I've never thought to put in a fake ceiling...curious as to how I might pull that off.
Yes I use puppy pads when I am sleeping or out of the house. The room that he is in is an addition and my house is old but in good shape but the room slants. If he pees it runs across the room and under his crate. Sadly it is really the only place for his crate to go. I also have children and don't want them to run through it without seeing it. Luckily the pads have provided a way to absorb any messes and the clean up is 50 percent easier. Believe me I don't want to buy them!
If he is left in his crate for more than a few moments he will immediately mess it. I'm not sure if it is an anxiety thing because he hates long periods of time inside of his crate or what?
I do try and not give him anymore food or water after a certain time of night. I thought 5pm was early enough but i guess not?
He is a pup that was literally born and raised in a barn. I don't think training is going to be a breeze. His father is 100% DDR and his mother is 1/2 west German show line, 1/4 Czech and 1/4 west German working line.
I have left his crate open so that he can go in there and get toys, eat and lay down if he likes. I can stop doing that?
Am I too just leave him in his crate to mess on himself all the time? How am I to teach him that soiling where he lays is bad if I let him continue to mess his crate? I'm sorry but can not just let him to sit in his own bodily waste. I have kids and other people in and out of my house on a regular basis. I can not and will not let him just sit in his waste. I do not punish him or get angry when he messes it. i do act disappointed, i'm not sure if it will help. He really is a wonderful pup besides the house training issue. i would for go the crate all together if i knew that he would not destroy my house when he gets older, hell i'd love to let him sleep in our bed but the husband won't allow it! lol
by Rouge on 12 April 2013 - 00:04
Sorry for the crazy font. I had to write it on a different app because this one was being screwy. :-(
by Rouge on 12 April 2013 - 01:04
Here is a recent picture of my messy boy just for fun. taken 4/7.
by Hundmutter on 12 April 2013 - 02:04
1) He IS only 13 weeks old yet. Pups don't often get perfectly
housebroken so young.
2) I reckon there is a clue in that 'born in the barn' beginning:
the breeder may have already undermined your efforts by
allowing this litter to eat sleep and poop in the same area ?
Always harder to break a gained habit, than teach from scratch.
3) You didn't specifically answer the point about watching for
signs / tethering him to you so you know when he's going to
go; but your expanded post indicates you are pretty much on
top of this aspect. I agree with others about the mixed msg of
the pads, but I see your point about overnight and the sloped
floor !
- Outside, my dog can 'squeeze one out' if he wants to mark
strange territory and doesn't consider a leg-lift enough ! So I feel
for you about the pup's apparent ability to 'crap on demand' when
he gets put in his crate. But here is where the vigilance really
comes in - not overnight (see 1) above !) but as much as you can
watch him in daytime. Watch him do it in the crate, pay careful
attention to how he looks just before he goes. Try this: take him
straight from the crate to the outside as soon as he has pooped.
Don't say a word, even of regret. When outside, make a big fuss
of him out there. If he goes again (either), make an even bigger
deal of how good he is. Then bring him back in, you get a while
before he physically needs to go again; clean the crate out,
again not saying ANYTHING. Next time you feed him, straight
outside when his bowl is empty, don't give him the chance to
do anything else in the crate. In fact, I would stop feeding him
in his crate, put the bowl down well away from it (see 2) above).
When he uses the yard, lots of praise, put your key word to
what he does.
I REALISE THIS IS ALL TIME CONSUMING WHEN YOU HAVE
FAMILY ETC TO SEE TO, BUT SOME PUPS ARE HARDER
WORK THAN OTHERS, AND THIS IS PART OF THE DEAL
WHEN YOU BUY A DOG.
He is lovely looking, by the way. Best of luck with this & him, Rouge.
housebroken so young.
2) I reckon there is a clue in that 'born in the barn' beginning:
the breeder may have already undermined your efforts by
allowing this litter to eat sleep and poop in the same area ?
Always harder to break a gained habit, than teach from scratch.
3) You didn't specifically answer the point about watching for
signs / tethering him to you so you know when he's going to
go; but your expanded post indicates you are pretty much on
top of this aspect. I agree with others about the mixed msg of
the pads, but I see your point about overnight and the sloped
floor !
- Outside, my dog can 'squeeze one out' if he wants to mark
strange territory and doesn't consider a leg-lift enough ! So I feel
for you about the pup's apparent ability to 'crap on demand' when
he gets put in his crate. But here is where the vigilance really
comes in - not overnight (see 1) above !) but as much as you can
watch him in daytime. Watch him do it in the crate, pay careful
attention to how he looks just before he goes. Try this: take him
straight from the crate to the outside as soon as he has pooped.
Don't say a word, even of regret. When outside, make a big fuss
of him out there. If he goes again (either), make an even bigger
deal of how good he is. Then bring him back in, you get a while
before he physically needs to go again; clean the crate out,
again not saying ANYTHING. Next time you feed him, straight
outside when his bowl is empty, don't give him the chance to
do anything else in the crate. In fact, I would stop feeding him
in his crate, put the bowl down well away from it (see 2) above).
When he uses the yard, lots of praise, put your key word to
what he does.
I REALISE THIS IS ALL TIME CONSUMING WHEN YOU HAVE
FAMILY ETC TO SEE TO, BUT SOME PUPS ARE HARDER
WORK THAN OTHERS, AND THIS IS PART OF THE DEAL
WHEN YOU BUY A DOG.
He is lovely looking, by the way. Best of luck with this & him, Rouge.
by Rouge on 12 April 2013 - 03:04
Thank you all for the advice and I will change up our routine. He didn't mess in his crate in the last 24 hours, but he also hasn't been in it much. He ate in there twice and I gave him a bone in it for a while too.
So what is your advice on how to get him to enjoy his crate and not go into full panic mode when I leave him in there more than a few moments?
So what is your advice on how to get him to enjoy his crate and not go into full panic mode when I leave him in there more than a few moments?
by Rouge on 12 April 2013 - 03:04
Oh I've tethered him to myself before. I can go back to it. He really likes to just lay about the house and I am not one to sit still for long...so I'd end up dragging him by the end of the day. Lol.
by Hundmutter on 12 April 2013 - 03:04
Re enjoying being crated - I think you are on the right lines
already. But one thing is, do give him more time; you tend
to sound as if you want fairly instant results, sometimes
you just have to have patience. He is very young still. JMO.
Build time spent in there up slowly & gradually, in tiny time
steps. Don't forget to praise when he has sat quietly for that
allotted time. It may sound like I'm nagging - but if you had
been at half the dog clubs I've been in, where clients insist
"I DO praise my dog when s/he gets it right", then watched
them promptly forget to, because someone speaks to them
or their phone rings or they just 'drift off' ...
already. But one thing is, do give him more time; you tend
to sound as if you want fairly instant results, sometimes
you just have to have patience. He is very young still. JMO.
Build time spent in there up slowly & gradually, in tiny time
steps. Don't forget to praise when he has sat quietly for that
allotted time. It may sound like I'm nagging - but if you had
been at half the dog clubs I've been in, where clients insist
"I DO praise my dog when s/he gets it right", then watched
them promptly forget to, because someone speaks to them
or their phone rings or they just 'drift off' ...
by fawndallas on 12 April 2013 - 10:04
Some suggestions:
As a natural rule, momma dog teaches her puppies that soiling where you sleep is not acceptable. The downside is that momma dog starts teaching this after the puppies have been weaned; i.e. she stops cleaning up after them. It sounds like your puppy missed these lessons from mom. (another good reason to leave puppies with their mom until 9 weeks) You now have to teach him this. Add that to the fact that he has had 13 weeks to pick up bad habits......
1. Crate is for sleeping only. This is more of a "way of life" attitude. If the puppy is doing anything, but sleeping, he is out of the crate. As this will be a new way of life for the puppy, I recommend doing this when you can have about 4 days to give full attention and limited sleep at night for you. At this point, I expect you have already started on general house manners, including "sit" "no" "quiet."
2. No eating, playing, drinking in the crate. Again, crate is for sleeping only.
Here is a suggested daily routine:
1. Wake up - move normal wake up time to 30 - 45 minutes earlier. This gives you the upper hand on potty time and not his body.
2. Puppy immediately goes out side for at least 10 minutes. This allows for the energy wear out along with doing business. Lots of happy praise when he does his business. Create a training word for this; i.e. "Good potty" This training word will be a god send when you go on trips down the road. NO FOOD OR WATER. Waiting 10 - 15 minutes more before getting water will not hurt the puppy and helps to establish focus on "I wake up, I go to the bathroom" attitude.
3. Puppy comes in for water. As he gets older, the "I am sooo thirsty" starts to diminish in the mornings. Depending on your puppy, either immediately back outside for potty time or wait 5 - 10 minutes. At this age, many puppies do not have to go potty right after drinking water. This is where the tether to you comes in handy. You will know when he has to go after drinking water.
4. Normal breakfast time. Do the same as water. Get to know the puppy to find out how soon he has to go after eating.
5. Normal exercise, play time. Cut each of these short by 5 minutes. Come inside and wait 2 minutes. Then go back outside for "potty" time. This should only be potty time. This 2 minute break resets the puppy's mind that play time is over and now something else is done. Do not start playing or let him drink water. Again this is potty time. Anything else he does is ignored and not encouraged.
Repeat as you see fit through the day. At this age, during awake time, the puppy should have to go potty about every hour to 1 1/2 hours.
As soon as the puppy falls asleep (most puppies average 20 hours asleep a day at this age), immediately put him in the crate. He DOES NOT get to sleep anywhere, inside or out, except in the crate.
NIGHT
1. As others suggested, no food or water 30 minutes before bed time.
2. Have play time before bed time. This eliminates some of the night time energy. Same as above, wait 2 minutes after play time ("quiet time", but not sleep), then take him outside for potty time.
3. Now comes your lack of sleep.
Have something that tells you the minute he moves in the crate. A bell, news paper that makes a sound when he moves, anything that will alert you. As soon as he moves, it is potty time.
Again no water.
Set your alarm. If he has not woken up in 2 hours, you wake him up for potty time. This lets you control and not his body. At this age, you will need to make sure he goes potty every 2 hours.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>After about 4 days, the puppy should now have the lessons that momma would have taught him: "There are specific times for each puppy life function; time for potty, time for water, time for food, time for play, time for sleep."
>>As the puppy gets older, the urgency from the time his body tells him he needs to go potty to the time he goes will diminish (understanding there are no health issues).
>>Right now, you have 3 things going against you: bad habit, no lessons from mom, and he is still a puppy. Hard routine can usually break this pretty quick at this age.
>>The having to set your alarm at night should go away after about 4 nights. Both you and him will now recognize the "I am waking up sounds." He will also be getting older and be able to sleep longer and longer at night. For most of my dogs, by 4 months (some sooner), they were sleeping 6 - 8 hours at night.
>>The idea is to never ever give him the opportunity to go to the bathroom in the crate or even in the house for that matter.
>>Puppy pads are good for when they first come home. They generally should be eliminated within the 1st 2 weeks. Again, establish the mind set that it is NEVER EVER ok to go to the bathroom in the house. Potty pads / puppy pads are for lazy people. I have seen enough of your posts, you are not a lazy person, just misguided.
>>Bell training is good to start now also. If you need some suggestions, let me know. Again, this is to make your life easy, as you can generally hear a bell "I need to go outside" anywhere in the home, but you may not always see the the sitting by the door.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Disclaimer: I have always used this method as soon as I brought the puppy home, so it has never taken me more than 4 days to get the "never ever go to the bathroom in the house" mind set. He is a smart dog that lives to please you. With diligence and a hard routine, I honestly do not think it will take you longer to get results, just because he is 13 weeks and not 8 - 9.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good luck.
As a natural rule, momma dog teaches her puppies that soiling where you sleep is not acceptable. The downside is that momma dog starts teaching this after the puppies have been weaned; i.e. she stops cleaning up after them. It sounds like your puppy missed these lessons from mom. (another good reason to leave puppies with their mom until 9 weeks) You now have to teach him this. Add that to the fact that he has had 13 weeks to pick up bad habits......
1. Crate is for sleeping only. This is more of a "way of life" attitude. If the puppy is doing anything, but sleeping, he is out of the crate. As this will be a new way of life for the puppy, I recommend doing this when you can have about 4 days to give full attention and limited sleep at night for you. At this point, I expect you have already started on general house manners, including "sit" "no" "quiet."
2. No eating, playing, drinking in the crate. Again, crate is for sleeping only.
Here is a suggested daily routine:
1. Wake up - move normal wake up time to 30 - 45 minutes earlier. This gives you the upper hand on potty time and not his body.
2. Puppy immediately goes out side for at least 10 minutes. This allows for the energy wear out along with doing business. Lots of happy praise when he does his business. Create a training word for this; i.e. "Good potty" This training word will be a god send when you go on trips down the road. NO FOOD OR WATER. Waiting 10 - 15 minutes more before getting water will not hurt the puppy and helps to establish focus on "I wake up, I go to the bathroom" attitude.
3. Puppy comes in for water. As he gets older, the "I am sooo thirsty" starts to diminish in the mornings. Depending on your puppy, either immediately back outside for potty time or wait 5 - 10 minutes. At this age, many puppies do not have to go potty right after drinking water. This is where the tether to you comes in handy. You will know when he has to go after drinking water.
4. Normal breakfast time. Do the same as water. Get to know the puppy to find out how soon he has to go after eating.
5. Normal exercise, play time. Cut each of these short by 5 minutes. Come inside and wait 2 minutes. Then go back outside for "potty" time. This should only be potty time. This 2 minute break resets the puppy's mind that play time is over and now something else is done. Do not start playing or let him drink water. Again this is potty time. Anything else he does is ignored and not encouraged.
Repeat as you see fit through the day. At this age, during awake time, the puppy should have to go potty about every hour to 1 1/2 hours.
As soon as the puppy falls asleep (most puppies average 20 hours asleep a day at this age), immediately put him in the crate. He DOES NOT get to sleep anywhere, inside or out, except in the crate.
NIGHT
1. As others suggested, no food or water 30 minutes before bed time.
2. Have play time before bed time. This eliminates some of the night time energy. Same as above, wait 2 minutes after play time ("quiet time", but not sleep), then take him outside for potty time.
3. Now comes your lack of sleep.
Have something that tells you the minute he moves in the crate. A bell, news paper that makes a sound when he moves, anything that will alert you. As soon as he moves, it is potty time.
Again no water.
Set your alarm. If he has not woken up in 2 hours, you wake him up for potty time. This lets you control and not his body. At this age, you will need to make sure he goes potty every 2 hours.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>After about 4 days, the puppy should now have the lessons that momma would have taught him: "There are specific times for each puppy life function; time for potty, time for water, time for food, time for play, time for sleep."
>>As the puppy gets older, the urgency from the time his body tells him he needs to go potty to the time he goes will diminish (understanding there are no health issues).
>>Right now, you have 3 things going against you: bad habit, no lessons from mom, and he is still a puppy. Hard routine can usually break this pretty quick at this age.
>>The having to set your alarm at night should go away after about 4 nights. Both you and him will now recognize the "I am waking up sounds." He will also be getting older and be able to sleep longer and longer at night. For most of my dogs, by 4 months (some sooner), they were sleeping 6 - 8 hours at night.
>>The idea is to never ever give him the opportunity to go to the bathroom in the crate or even in the house for that matter.
>>Puppy pads are good for when they first come home. They generally should be eliminated within the 1st 2 weeks. Again, establish the mind set that it is NEVER EVER ok to go to the bathroom in the house. Potty pads / puppy pads are for lazy people. I have seen enough of your posts, you are not a lazy person, just misguided.
>>Bell training is good to start now also. If you need some suggestions, let me know. Again, this is to make your life easy, as you can generally hear a bell "I need to go outside" anywhere in the home, but you may not always see the the sitting by the door.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Disclaimer: I have always used this method as soon as I brought the puppy home, so it has never taken me more than 4 days to get the "never ever go to the bathroom in the house" mind set. He is a smart dog that lives to please you. With diligence and a hard routine, I honestly do not think it will take you longer to get results, just because he is 13 weeks and not 8 - 9.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good luck.
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