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by CMills on 20 February 2013 - 03:02
That dog did beautiful work!
by fawndallas on 20 February 2013 - 04:02
On my 2nd question, not the sit at a stop. I am talking about the pup was at a sit by his side, the person simply turned around and the pup immediately repositioned itself back into a sit by his side.-----------------------------------
Good thought Darcy. I will work on that as a different command.
Good thought Darcy. I will work on that as a different command.
by fozzie on 20 February 2013 - 08:02
Teaching the dog to use its rear to come into the heel position when you do a left turn is difficult. I've only just started this with Gina G and its difficult because the way she comes into the heel position is to go around behind me. The concequence of that was everytime I went to turn left she'd get confused and keep going round behind me in circles (stupid dog!). I've just started teaching her with the line behind my back and encouraging her to tuck her bum in with little taps on the collar. She's starting to figure it out through self motivation but its still not solid.
The final picture I want is when she's in the 'here/recall' position I want her to come into the heel position by going behind and around but when I do the about turn in motion I want her to swing her bum around.
My older dog has learned to swing her bum in for the basic position but Gina preferred going behind so I've let both dogs choose their own style.
This is my older dog you can see she has a different style. Interestingly I havn't taught her to do the position in the boxes like I am with Gina, so she throws her legs forward in the down rather than reversing back into it but its ok as long as its fast and direct.
The final picture I want is when she's in the 'here/recall' position I want her to come into the heel position by going behind and around but when I do the about turn in motion I want her to swing her bum around.
My older dog has learned to swing her bum in for the basic position but Gina preferred going behind so I've let both dogs choose their own style.
This is my older dog you can see she has a different style. Interestingly I havn't taught her to do the position in the boxes like I am with Gina, so she throws her legs forward in the down rather than reversing back into it but its ok as long as its fast and direct.
by fawndallas on 20 February 2013 - 14:02
Very Very nice Fozzie. Both of your dogs are beautiful and your training is great.. Thank you so much for sharing. Interesting that the 1 trial I went to, even at the IPO level 2 & 3, none of the dogs had this much precision during the obedience part (I was expecting to see and was disappointed).
It is the swinging the rear around that I am talking about (thank you Fozzie for the correct words). I have no idea how to teach a dog this.
It is the swinging the rear around that I am talking about (thank you Fozzie for the correct words). I have no idea how to teach a dog this.
by laura271 on 20 February 2013 - 15:02
I'm not sure I'm following. Are we discussing the dog moving with the handler and sitting in heel position during a left quarter turn?
If so, that takes lots of practice and three well timed soft pops on the leash. LOL. Martin spends a few minutes every day working with Bosco on his left quarter turns; he's just starting to understand. Senta's left quarter turns are beautiful ...but she complains when Martin's footwork is wrong (if he doesn't pivot on his left foot first).
We teach down from the front end for a fast drop on recall.
If so, that takes lots of practice and three well timed soft pops on the leash. LOL. Martin spends a few minutes every day working with Bosco on his left quarter turns; he's just starting to understand. Senta's left quarter turns are beautiful ...but she complains when Martin's footwork is wrong (if he doesn't pivot on his left foot first).
We teach down from the front end for a fast drop on recall.
by Jeffs on 20 February 2013 - 17:02
The 90 degree left turn to a stop is really 2 things in my opinion: Heal and turn.
If the dog is in a heal, shouldn't it always go into a sit next to the handler when the handler stops? It was my understanding that "Heal" doesn't mean walk next to me. It means be next to me. Walk, stand, sit, and down in the heal position means the dog is on the left side of the handler with it's shoulder in line with the seam on the pant leg. The sit when the handler stops is the default. If the handler stops and says down or stand then the dog stops and either goes in to a down or a stand next to the handler. By the way, the box helps teach the dog to go from a Sit in the heal position to a Stand and/or down without moving from the heal position.
The left turn is a seperate skill. The dog should turn the same way whether the handler continues to walk or stops. It's a cool looking skill because the dogs front legs are moving in the opposite direct of the back legs and the legs should be cross stepping. The front legs are crossing stepping away from the handler while the back legs and cross stepping towards the handler.
I agree with the pop-pop-pop with the leash to do the left turn, with the light popping being aimed behind the handlers back. Doing 360s, 720, 1080s are a good way to train - remember to praise when the dog does the cross step.
From this, my dog essentially taught himself to go from the FRONT into a Heal by pivoting himself. He was in a FRONT. I said HEAL, and gave a little pop-pop-pop on the leash and he pivoted into a HEAL. Now, anytime he is in front of me and I say heal, he PIVOTs to the heal. very cool.
This transistions into the right side step. Now he knows where he is supposed to be. So a right side step with the similiar pop-pop-pop gets the dog to scouch to his right with me.
If the dog is in a heal, shouldn't it always go into a sit next to the handler when the handler stops? It was my understanding that "Heal" doesn't mean walk next to me. It means be next to me. Walk, stand, sit, and down in the heal position means the dog is on the left side of the handler with it's shoulder in line with the seam on the pant leg. The sit when the handler stops is the default. If the handler stops and says down or stand then the dog stops and either goes in to a down or a stand next to the handler. By the way, the box helps teach the dog to go from a Sit in the heal position to a Stand and/or down without moving from the heal position.
The left turn is a seperate skill. The dog should turn the same way whether the handler continues to walk or stops. It's a cool looking skill because the dogs front legs are moving in the opposite direct of the back legs and the legs should be cross stepping. The front legs are crossing stepping away from the handler while the back legs and cross stepping towards the handler.
I agree with the pop-pop-pop with the leash to do the left turn, with the light popping being aimed behind the handlers back. Doing 360s, 720, 1080s are a good way to train - remember to praise when the dog does the cross step.
From this, my dog essentially taught himself to go from the FRONT into a Heal by pivoting himself. He was in a FRONT. I said HEAL, and gave a little pop-pop-pop on the leash and he pivoted into a HEAL. Now, anytime he is in front of me and I say heal, he PIVOTs to the heal. very cool.
This transistions into the right side step. Now he knows where he is supposed to be. So a right side step with the similiar pop-pop-pop gets the dog to scouch to his right with me.
by fozzie on 20 February 2013 - 17:02
Yeah its a lot of work on little details. The basic position is the most important foundation of heel work and the one thing that distinguishes really impressive obedience rounds is that super finish to the basic position.
I prefer the bum swinging round to the going round and behind but some dogs are more coordinated and comfortable using their rear ends than others. Dogs that can easily walk backwards and are naturally good at standing up on their hind legs and holding that position seem to be better at using the bum. Might be something to do with a tighter construction or perhaps its learned through proprioception excercises as puppies. I don't really have an answer yet. My gut feeling is all dogs have their own style that they're comfortable with and you've got to work with what you're given rather than trying to fit square pegs in round holes.
I prefer the bum swinging round to the going round and behind but some dogs are more coordinated and comfortable using their rear ends than others. Dogs that can easily walk backwards and are naturally good at standing up on their hind legs and holding that position seem to be better at using the bum. Might be something to do with a tighter construction or perhaps its learned through proprioception excercises as puppies. I don't really have an answer yet. My gut feeling is all dogs have their own style that they're comfortable with and you've got to work with what you're given rather than trying to fit square pegs in round holes.
by laura271 on 20 February 2013 - 17:02
I think Martin (my husband) and Jeffs train in a similiar style. Martin does a lot of 360s, 180s, and right/left quarter turns every day with our two dogs. He also does numerous figure 8's around people, cones, and dogs. It took a lot of practice before Bosco learned to maintain eye contact (ie. not looking down) when going into the turns on the figure 8s. Martin can feel a bit discouraged watching a video of himself heeling - there's always something that can be improved!
by fawndallas on 20 February 2013 - 20:02
Thank you Jeffs (although I am totally confused. 
) Does anyone have any videos showing what Jeff is talking about?
) Does anyone have any videos showing what Jeff is talking about?by Jeffs on 21 February 2013 - 15:02
This video will give you something to shoot for. And no, that is not me.
After you've watched the video once, watch it again and focus on the dog's rump as it walks. After the handler plants his left foot, the dog's backside always starts to sit. I personally don't like how it looks because it takes away from the smoothness of the walk, but it shows how the dog knows it is supposed to sit when the handler stops. I doubt it's possible to have a dog that sits that quickly when the handler stops without having that little hitch.
I love this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxzTRfVgFJ0
After you've watched the video once, watch it again and focus on the dog's rump as it walks. After the handler plants his left foot, the dog's backside always starts to sit. I personally don't like how it looks because it takes away from the smoothness of the walk, but it shows how the dog knows it is supposed to sit when the handler stops. I doubt it's possible to have a dog that sits that quickly when the handler stops without having that little hitch.
I love this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxzTRfVgFJ0
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