Breeding an almost 9 year old female? - Page 2

Yeah, find two other pairings;  good luck.  Just to end this on an interesting note;  I read last night on line someone advertising a Berner male for stud on E-bay.  Can you believe it.  Really sad.  and surely should be illegal.  Great days everyone.  Nan

GSDguy08, she's not making that up,  I've heard what hexe just said in her post above, before on here, by other respected members. And of course it would be an exceptional bitch in excellent health that makes sense to do this. And yes, it is about numbers, but they could also just be precious opportunities not being wasted. 

It has to be looked at case by case, I think is my point.

The question posed by the OP was "Is it safe to breed a 9 year old female that has repeatedly been bred back-to-back?"  and that's the question I answered, since there were so many incorrect responses regarding the SAFETY of the practice.  Like it or not, it is no more or less safe than breeding a well-conditioned bitch at any age.  That's the science of it.

Whether it is necessary, prudent, ethical, profitable, desirable, or morally correct to breed in such a fashion is a different question, and there is no single absolute answer to those points.  Depending on the specific circumstances, it may be all of those things, or none of them.

But the science indicates that it is no more dangerous to do than breeding a 4 year old female that has repeatedly bred back-to-back.

Edited to add:

BTW, at one time, I was of the same misconception [no pun intended] that breeding a bitch at each estrus was in some way actually hazardous  to the bitch's health, too.  Then I attended several lectures by  board-certified theriogenologists, and began reading theriogenology journals and research papers, and I learned the medical  truth of the matter. 

Hexe,
Actually, there are two questions:
Is it safe?
and,
What are the dangers of it?

Most chose to answer the the second question, so, I really don't think they were incorrrect as you stated.

I think that the Czech/Slovaks have it correct.
They don't allow it after 8 years of age.

Being feasible is one thing, doing it is another.
As usual........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!



Edited to add:
What is a "board certified theriogenologist"?
Is there a theriogenologist board that actually certifies them?
If there is, I'd love to see a web site or journal listing pertaining to this.
I always love the "board certified" moniker attached to veterinarians.
Usually what it means is that they took an extra class or two in a particular subject that they found interesting in vet school.
The other thing is did you actually research both sides of this, or, just accept the info as presented? It really isn't that hard for an organization like Hunt to hire a bunch of veterinarians to say pretty much whatever he wants them to say, especially when those vets are on the same political side of his breed 'em to death debate.

Well, OGBS, the dangers  of the practice are no different than the dangers posed in breeding a younger bitch--they both have an equal risk of developing pyometra, of resorbing the puppies, of needing a C-section due to uterine inertia or pups that are too large for the bitch to whelp naturally...but you are correct in that there are two questions in the original post--the first asking about the safety (which is asked again at the end of the post, with the word danger substituted for safety), and the second question asking for people's thoughts  on the practice.  Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion on the matter as far as that goes, but they don't get to create their own science--and the science indicates that it is not a concern in that regard.

I stand corrected.
I looked it up.
There actually is:

http://www.theriogenology.org/

And here is the Society for Theriogenology's position statement on the breeding of dogs, which addresses breeding on each estrus after the first one, as well as the question of breeding older animals:

http://therio.org/associations/2746/files/welfare%20of%20breeding%20dogs.pdf

Board certification IS NOT 'just taking some extra classes'--there's a lot more involved, which is why most veterinarians, and most medical doctors and osteopaths don't pursue board certification, if all they plan on doing is general practice. 

http://www.journals.elsevier.com/theriogenology/

Hexe when I said back to back.....As I also mentioned in my post.....back to back all the way from two until nine years of age.   

Beetree, I do know it's better to breed "back to back", better for the female, of course;   I'm more so concerned about what I mentioned above in this comment.   If a person breeds six or seven females back to back every single heat they have, and they are selling at a high price, how could they not be in it for money is kind of what I was getting at as well.  I'm sure the breeder I'm speaking of is known by members on here; Maybe, maybe not. I just know in the past they were said to be a very reputable breeder to me from others who were trainers/breeders.

I do not breed past 8 years  because all the breeding I needed had been done by then.
 But I agree with Hexe. Healthy female in nature will breed thus you should be able to breed healthy female in proper shape at 9 years.  The rest is PC gibberish without any common sense foundation or feeble attempt to stay on the safe side of the issue.  I have seen young females die  giving birth and I have seen old proven females do just fine. I have found out that unhealthy or too old female ( what ever that is) will often not get pregnant.  Breeding is always risky for even a healthy  female and with age the risk increases slightly. Thus it is prudent to breed at 2 years, and get all such breeding done ASAP. 
As far as breeding back to back I think that it  is easier on the female then to breed years apart. If you breed back to back you will get smaller litters which are easier on the female then to give birth to large litters. ( 5 is easier then 9:)) . 
 That said I would not breed female of that age if she never had a litter before  though. 
 In these matters look to the nature for guideline. You can not find a better adviser. 
 OK now you can stone me.
Hans
 
  

I bred a very good bitch, in good health, that was 8 years old, and she ended up having 5 healthy puppies, who grew to be great dogs.  She, however, was not bred back to back.  It had been a couple of years since her last breeding.
DCW