Do You Believe in the Vaccine for Lyme Disease? - Page 2

Here is Dr. Schultz's perspective on the Lyme vaccine. Lyme - only 3% of infected dogs show clinical signs of disease, is mostly arthritic and is easily treated with doxy. Dogs do not usually get the severe organ or neuro damage that humans do. Before the vaccine was available, 70% of dogs in St Louis had titers, but few had lyme DISEASE. After the vaccine has been available, the statistics have remained unchanged. Is the vaccine doing anything??? Lyme disease is only contracted by those who are genetically predisposed to getting it. LYME VACCINE - if give, use only the recombinant outer surface protein A version (Murial, Intervet) Recommends against, even in New England where 75% of dogs show exposure. Only 1 year DOI. At least 10% false positives. Impossible to really confirm lyme disease. Too many dogs get clinical lyme from the vaccine and it is more likely to cause a worse type of arthritis than the dog would get from lyme disease itself. The vaccine does not prevent infection and really doesn’t prevent the disease either. In Schultz’s opinion: “Lyme disease is a media produced paranoia.” Humans suffer the devastating effects of lyme much more frequently than dogs. Most dogs will fight on their own. A predisposed dog will get a worse case of lyme if vaccinated than if not vaccinated. In a lab setting, studies show “some” protection. But in actual field studies, the vaccine seems pretty useless. Lyme is easily treated with doxy once clinical signs appear. Lameness/arthritis is generally the first to show up. Only treat if clinical signs of lyme develop. Tests are not reliable since few are adequately trained in reading lab results. “Do not treat laboratory results; treat the animal.” (IOW: only treat when the dog is symptomatic.) Dr Schultz has a love/hate relationship with Drug Co’s. They want his advice, but don’t like it. He hasn’t been sued since he knows more about their products than they do, and they need him. He has done DOI studies for every product out there but has signed confidentiality agreements. He feels it’s the drug co’s responsibility to do their own studies and publish them. So he has told them “publish your own or I will do it for you.” Some are starting to comply. The drug co’s tell vets, don’t change anything until you see something published. It’s a catch-22. The money needs to come from somewhere to do the studies and the drug co’s certainly don’t want folks to know their products lasts a minimum of 9 years. While he hasn’t published his own studies, he HAS presented them at “major scientific” meetings. His response to veterinarians who think they need to see “published proof” of duration of immunity studies is “bullshit.”

More information..,... Perspectives in Veterinary Medicine 29 Refs Meryl P. Littman, VMD, Dipl., ACVIM Department of Clinical Studies School of Veterinary Medicine University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA Veterinarians are increasingly concerned about vaccinations in general, the scientific basis for frequency of vaccination, and possible vaccine reactions (anaphylaxis, immune-mediated disease, sarcoma formation, and other adverse effects). Practitioners are weighing the risks and benefits of various vaccines as well as the justification for using a Lyme vaccine. As a clinician living in an endemic region and working at the Veterinary Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, I am hesitant to administer any of the currently available Lyme vaccines. In a recent survey, 19 of 27 veterinary teaching hospitals in North America did not provide Lyme vaccination at all; the other eight hospitals only did so if the owner requested it and was traveling to an endemic region. It is often difficult to accurately diagnose Lyme disease in endemic areas for several reasons. Many normal dogs have positive antibody titers to Borrelia burgdorferi. These dogs have been exposed but do not show evidence of illness. When a seropositive dog does have clinical signs of illness, it is thus difficult to determine whether the signs can be attributed to Lyme disease. One study in an endemic region demonstrated that 89.6% of healthy dogs had positive Lyme titers. There is no apparent correlation between positive Lyme titers and the occurrence of clinical signs. Only 4.8% of naturally exposed seropositive dogs demonstrated a limb or joint disorder with lethargy, fever, or inappetence; however, 4.6% of seronegative dogs also demonstrated such disorders. Most dogs that are seropositive for Lyme disease have not exhibited clinical signs of the disease. In my experience, an even lower percentage (3% to 4%) may be actually sick due to Lyme disease; I have found that borreliosis is over-diagnosed in some endemic regions. Lameness related to various causes (e.g., trauma, degenerative joint disease, immune-mediated polyarthropathy, rheumatoid arthritis, or arthropathy related to other infections) may be too easily ascribed to borreliosis if the clinician's index of suspicion is high and the owners are eager to accept this fashionable diagnosis. I recommend preventing tick exposure in the hope of avoiding not only Lyme disease but also other tick-borne infections endemic in my region (e.g.,ehrlichiosis, Rocky Mountain spotted fever, and babesiosis). I currently recommend monthly application of fipronil or an amitraz collar, to kill ticks before they attach and obtain a blood meal. Without such a meal, ticks cannot transmit organisms or lay viable eggs.

I do not vaccinate Blitz against lyme although we are in an endemic area. Most vets here are graduates of the Unviersity of PA vet school and are influenced by Littman's opinions as above. Consider this - human lyme vaccinate was withdrawn from the market 2/25/2002 after being approved in Dec 1998. The first year there were 298 reported cases of adverse reactions to the vaccine, 10% of which were chronic arthritis which COULD have been a possible potential side effect of that vac. Prior to being approved for use the FDA, scientists and drug makers were aware of the possibiltiy that this vaccine had the possiblity of producing an autoimmune response where the body attacks its own tissue. Drug manufacturers reported they were withdrawing the vaccine due to lack of sales but that is not universally accepted as the real reason. Why is the vaccine still available to the pet market and not the human market? Consider this - if this vaccine causes an adverse reation in humans, the manufacturers leave themselve wide open to huge lawsuits. If dogs have an adverse reaction, there would be no concern and few courts would ever rule in favor of the pet owner. Even if they would, the small amount award to the owner for compensation would not nearly cover the legal costs. Drug manufacturers are not stupid and making a profit by far outweighs cncern for the well being of our dogs. Many vets will not take the time to do their homwork either and will do as many still do - recommended every annual vac that is on the market. They need to go to the Bahamas and vacs are their bread and butter. Did you know a DHL combo cost you vet well under .75 and a rabies is just a few cents more. The last litter I co-bred was vaccinated by a vet in NY who charged us $25.00 per puppy. Duh......... I was not surprised to recently learn he was vacationing in Euprope for the entire summer.

gsdfanatic1964, Just to clarify a few issues. First of all, there are now tests which can distinguish whether a given dog testing positive for Lymes actually had/has infection or whether the antibodies are vaccination induced. Secondly, there are newer vaccines available now and there are far fewer side effects for the rare dog who has them. Lymes can be generally treated and the bacteria eliminated IF the infection is caught early on. If it is not caught, then often a lot of damage has been done, including severe renal damage. There are several antibiotics that are deemed efficacious. The veterinary medicine field is filled with people who have become good vets. But most of them have had a course or two at most on virology. All it takes is for one person in this internet world to suggest that there is a problem and the next thing you know, all kinds of people who have not even really read the scientific literature have an opinion on whether something is or is not safe. This includes vaccinations. Further, most people have no training in risk management. In the end, it does come down to personal choice. Where there are not the right kind and high tick burdens, it does not make sense to vaccinate. Where there are the right kind of ticks, the right environments for them to thrive, and high mammal populations that can spread and carry them around, and where one has a dog out in that environment, it makes sense to seriously consider the vaccine. It is the same with leptospirosis. In our area, we rarely see it. Yet one of my Schutzhund club members recently travelled to a dog event in another state and had one of her three dogs infected with leptospirosis. Fortunately, this woman knows her dog and knew something was wrong and went right to the vet. The initial diagnosis of UTI turned out to be incorrect and a lot of expensive tests had to be run before the Lepto could be identified. According to lab tests, her dog, a young dog, has lost 20% of his kidney function. Whether that figure will improve or not remains to be seen. Had she not caught this and gone to competent vets, the dog may well have died. There is a vaccine for Lepto, but the older version does not carry the strains we see today. As well, it is so rare here that it probably makes little sense to vaccinate for it. So the point is that in an area where it was endemic, it would be prudent to consider. As you know, the tick products are not fail safe. One can minimize the chance a dog will pick up a tick by keeping them out of certain areas. One can carefully inspect for ticks. But if a tick carrying a tick borne disease is attached for more than a few hours, the chances are high the bite will infect the dog. Some dogs do not show infection, or are mildly ill. For others, it can be very serious. Only you can make a decision, but again, do not be cowed by fear mongering. Know and understand the current facts, not literature and anti-vaccine propaganda.

Not to be one of the "internet experts" who cause people terrible anguish regarding decisions such as these because of some obscure, 3rd hand knowledge of "something that happened" - but my wife had a very highly trained herding boarder collie. He got the vaccine and GOT THE DISEASE. The dog mentally is the same dog but can barely move his hind limbs. It is akin to an athlete who becomes paralyzed - very sad to have so much desire to work and be trapped in a broken body. I live in Virginia and struggle with the decision - thus far have not given the vaccine. I've found one or 2 ticks on each of my dogs in the last year and so far (thank god) not seen any lasting issues. I have no idea if the reaction the boarder collie had was rare or less than rare - but it was severe - I've seen the dog myself - it now lives with a friend of hers. Evidently there is no question that the vaccine caused the illness the time from injection to onset of symptoms was very short. -Calvin

Blitzen, I want to comment on one thing in your post. I get my vaccines at prices 20% below that of my vet. Even so, they are between $2.50 and $5 a dose each. I do not know of any vaccine that I can buy at prices you mention. I get vaccines as cheap as anyone can because of my facility status. Why do we begrudge vets from making a living? Many vets I know do lots and lots of pro bono work. Most vets I know, including some just out of school, are making about $30,000 a year. Most of them are terribly in debt from school loans as well. I simply do not understand people who seem to begrudge vets and wellness exams. I submit they can be as important as exams for us, vaccination issues not withstanding. If someone wants to skip a vaccination for their dog, or their child, go ahead and do it. But do not blame medical personnel from trying to do the right thing. There are a lot of people dying each month in China from rabies who sure would have liked to see all dogs have the vaccinations before the disease became endemic. My neighbor just took her beloved 10 year old Lab in for a health check. Something was amiss and she was sent for a second opinion to a specialist who dismissed the original possible problem, but, in the meantime, discovered a tumor that had gone undetected. The cost was far less than what it would have cost had it been me that went in. And thankfully, the tumor can not be watched and decisions made about a course of treatment, if required.

Vets in PA pay way less than that, Hodie. When I purchased for a local vet, the combos were .45 each in boxes of 50 doses ordered directly from the manufacturer. A 10cc vial of rabies vaccine was under $6.00. They have gone up some since then, last I heard from the gal who took my place, they are now paying around .72 per dose directly from a manfacturer like Ft. Dodge. Tractor Supply in PA sells distemper combos for $4.55 per dose and I'm pretty sure they can be purchased off the internet for a few bucks a dose if bought in a box lot. Maybe it depends on the area in which you live? I don't begrudge any vet a decent living, but I do think that $25 for a puppy vaccination is exhorbatant. I don't like to pay $250 for an OFA hip xray not including the OFA fee or anesthesia either. Some vets are reasonable, some are not.