Degenerative Myelopathy Test - Inaccurate for GSDs? - Page 2

I agree.  I tested most of my dogs so far and I will take it into consideation when breeding but more research needs to be done as dogs that test n/n can still have DM.  So what good does it do???  Really it does not do any good as I have to tell all my customer that both parents are n/n but your puppy can still get DM.  I also tell my customers that both parents have a-normal hips but the puppy can still have hip dysplasia.  However, I have never seen a dog that was xrayed with excellent hips come up with severe hip dysplasia.  Once we xray we know if there is a problem.  With the current DM test we don't know.  The dog can be at Risk and never devolope DM....

I don't believe it was just one dog that proved (for lack of better terms) the test to be invalid. 

Yes, I read the link. I might have to go in and read it later, because I haven't really slept and I may not have understood it as well as I would have if my brain was fully functioning. 

I just don't really see the point of doing a test that is/can be so inaccurate. Dogs that test 'at-risk' may never get it, dogs that test 'normal' may get it.... At least with hips, you get the x-rays done, and if they're good, they're good. If they're bad, they're bad. It's not like, "Oh, even though my dog tested normal, doesn't mean he can't get it."

If that's how you feel then don't test your dogs and don't ask for the results of a DNA test when you buy a dog. Your option.

The test is inexpensive, does no harm, it may do a lot of good in the future, and it isn't intended to eliminate any dogs from a breeding program.  So what's the beef?  It's not as if at risks and carriers are branded with a scarlet letter and neutered on the spot. I just don't see why a breeder wouldn't want to use such a simple, inexpensive test.  I'd think that most breeders and buyers would rather have an idea of what they are doing rather than go into it blindly.

BTW I had 2 pups with severe HD out of an excellent dam and a good sire with 3 generations of goods and excellents behind them. I still xray hips.



 

What's the problem folks....if you want to test....by all means test. If you don't by all means don't. By the nature of the test and the data it gives and does not give, it doesn't make you a better, more responsible, or more ethical breeder to test or not to test. It makes a lot of people feel better, no problem with that, for others it  does not provide enough information for their tastes.....thats okay too. 18 to 25 percent of all German Shepherds will have some degree of HD, (in all lines), to necessitate the need for radiograph testing at some point for breeding stock. No brainer! For DM, with some it may guide their decisions and be helpful, for others they may be just as successful or moreso without the testing. Testing at this point does not equate to a superior breeder, unfortunately. So I think that people that want to test should do it by all means, but to imply that this testing is a necessity, or try to impose this on others at THIS stage of what the test provides is really disingenous.

Never mind.

I'm all for being safe than sorry, but if you can get a dog that tests N/N, and still winds up getting DM later in life... seems almost pointless. A good idea, absolutely. But... I guess I don't see the point if the validity of the test is questionable. 
Kind of like if pregnancy tests weren't so reliable. Go out and get one on the market, pretty much expecting it to be accurate. Comes up negative. Few months later, turns out you ARE pregnant... kinda sucks, I imagine. 

At least with doing x-rays, it doesn't really change. If a dog has severe hips, you wouldn't expect that dog to get to good, or even fair, would you? Or if you had a dog with excellent hips, you wouldn't really expect for the dog to get severe hips later. 

With the DM test, despite the results, it can STILL go either way.

I agree with Blitzen.  The test is a tool, but it is one that should be used.  It is not that the test is innacurate, it is that there may be other forms of DM not revealed by the testing.  For 65 dollars, there is no reason not to test every breeding GSD.

I believe the goal in testing is to avoid producing more +/+ dogs. There is a strong correlation between dogs who are affected with DM and the +/+ status.

Perhaps there are two forms of the disease (or 2 diseases) in GSDs, so if I test, maybe I can eliminate the chance that my pups will ever get one type of the disease, or maybe I am also reducing the chance that my pups will get either type.

I figure it doesn't hurt to test and make decisions to avoid creating any +/+ dogs--and it may help a lot. The DNA test isn't just randomly wrong--there are some specific incidences where it is wrong. What if the DNA test identifies the genes linked with the more common form of the disease but not a 2nd more uncommon form? Isn't it worthwhile to avoid producing that more common form?

If I could reduce the incidence of HD by a further 75% with one $65 test, I for sure would do it.

Christine

This debate continues on, and there is yet no answer to it.

However, I see another reason for testing which is to provide the researchers with a broader range and amount of data. This is ultimately what will validate/invalidate the test and lead and direct the future of research into DM. The more tests that are done, the bigger and better picture we will get into DM and what dogs it is affecting, at what age etc, with the essential knowledge of how they tested.

Historically there was no test as such, with the exception of the flash test, that researchers have had almost nothing concrete to work with. To some degree this is still the case, when you look at the numbers in the breed the numbers tested even now are minimal. Other avenues of course such as drugs trials for certain conditions may also provide clues as to whether current DM theory is on the right track, but none of this can happen without a significant amount of data to work with, as this is what shows the anomalies, not in just one's and two's, but in significant numbers to indicate patterns.

I know that some people feel that we are now just sitting back and saying we have the answer with this DM test - problem solved. I don't see it like that, just the opposite - we are just getting started, and unless the breed as a whole gets involved how can we then sit back and cry when 10 years down the line we are no nearer to solving the problem and we are still watching our dogs go through this horror?

As time goes on, the dogs which are tested now, and their offspring are going to produce essential data on which to base future research in this disease and hopefully produce the definitive answers we so desperately need.

Maybe just throw away the results, and think of the $65 as a donation to DM Research.

That's my thoughts on it anyway.

Good Point Abby