Dog price question - Page 2

In these times of stock market upheavel, rising gas prices, loss of jobs and even our homes,  it's unknown what any one of us may face tomorrow in life...
Sometimes our "road of choice" does not follow the grooves in the path according to what we anticipate it will. 
But when it doesn't, we need to make choices that are in the best interest of all concerned.
I must stand in agreement with the previous posters who state that, in particular, the male Berlin should be returned to Melinda, who is his breeder, according to your contract.  I know Melinda and I am certain that she will do what's right by the dog.  And as importantly, you should remember that you are obligated by your contract to do that as well.
It's circumstances such as this that force breeders to put clauses, such as first right of refusal or returning the dog to them in the event you choose not to keep it, into their contracts.  These clauses are added into our contracts in an effort to ensure our puppies don't end up in some clueless pet home (you know, the people who call about your puppies and ask "what do you mean by 'Drive' ?? " ) !!  and who may eventually end up being purchased off craig's list, only to go into another unsuspecting pet home.     As for the litter, I'm sure Melinda could find excellent placements for your litter of pups as well, and would make certain that she gets each of them into the proper working home that each pup is most suited for, since she is more familiar with what drives and temperaments they would have than anyone else would be.  That would be in the best interest of the pups, the young male dog, and probably be the best for you as well, and would relieve any duress   you may be feeling from not being able to find suitable homes for them yourself, as the pups are getting older.   You will know they will be taken care of and will go into the best possible home for each individual animal.      KnIt       

And yet another reason why I have a BUYBACK guarantee. You just can't trust most people. The minimum an owner wishing to give a dog up will get from me is their full purchase price or possibly more, if they have done something to increase the value of the dog. If the dog is worth more than I can afford, then I just want to know who the dog is sold to. It's not fair to require someone in dire straits to have to return a dog for free that someone else would pay for.

Give Melinda the opportunity to buy the dog back from you LIKE SHE JUST SAID SHE WOULD.

Thank you all for throwing me under the bus.  Berlin is NOT for sale, but it is a thought that had crossed my mind.  IF I do decide to sell him, I will notify the breeder and offer right of first refusal, but for now there's no need to pass any judgements.

As for the puppies, the majority of inquiries I have received on them has been from pet homes with no clue what a working line dog entails.  It's far more important to me that the puppies go into appropriate loving, working homes than for me to collect money off of them.  If I didn't care where they went to, then they would all be gone already.

I didn't take your post to mean you were selling Berlin for sure and I certainly didn't mean to "throw you under the bus." I simply stated why I have a guarantee that would make all this back-and-forth moot. I   was only trying to point out that you have an out, so worrying about price may not be necesssary!

I don't know your situation or what you and Melinda have discussed or not discussed. But you would've saved yourself the grief had you been forthcoming w/Melinda. A simple email saying "hey, don't freak out if you see a question about selling dogs; I'm just testing the water" (or whatever!) would've gone a long way. JMO. I would be frantic had one of my buyers posted this.

Just read this thread....
I know Melinda personally, and I would say that she is one of the most ethical and honest people in the dog world & business.
I know that she genuinely cares about her dogs, her clients AND her friends....I'm honored to be able to call her a friend.

I sincerely hope that IF one of Melinda's dogs can no longer be cared for, that SHE be notified first & foremost.
*In this hard economic time, many people (including myself) have faced some form of financial burden.....these are some difficult times....it can happen to anyone.*
JMO

I have done nothing wrong per my contract either.  I did not place the dog up for sale, nor did I even state the name of the dog.  I was doing a research question in the event that I may want to sell the dog.  I am perfectly within my rights to sell the dog, I don't even have to offer right of first refusal, I just have to notify the breeder if I choose to do so.  Exact words are as follows "If for any reason the buyer is unable to keep the puppy/dog, the breeder must be notified.  If the buyer is unable to find a suitable home, which is approved by the breeder, the breeder agrees to take the dog back.  If the dog is placed in a second home, the breeder must be supplied with the new owner's name, address, and phone number.  The dog is not to be placed in a shelter, humane society, or a rescue group."

And you don't want any of your dogs placed in a shelter but here you are suggesting that I do so with mine "It saddens me that you are now offering his litter free to a good "performance" home. Really, I'd rather see you take them to a shelter and let them do proper placement vs. placing a free ad." And the rest of you reading and condoning this action??  I can't offer my pups up to be sport dogs, working dogs, or service dogs?  I only listed that ad here where presumably experienced and knowledgable people would be interested.

 

I'm sure I'm not going to be elected Prom Queen of this thread, but I really think Ms. Clark and her admirers--and I mean nothing bad by that, it's nice to see an ethical breeder get strong support--I really think ya'll hit the 'fast forward' button way too early. 

Granville (who I do not know) posted a query on *how* one would arrive at an asking price for an adult dog, as she was considering selling 'some'.

Jenni and Hedi (who I also don't know) both responded with some insight, and both asked Granville what she had--with Hedi even indicating she was looking for a new dog right now, and might be interested.

Granville responded with some basic info on two of the dogs she has. And apparently the description of one fits the dog purchased from Ms. Clark (don't know her either)...and the shit hit the fan.

I don't see the transgression here. The present owner of the dog in contention released a trial balloon to see if some disinterested but possibly knowledgeable by-standers thought either of the dogs had a market value--in this economy, not an unreasonable action IMO--and how a person would calculate that value fairly.   The present owner of the dog in contention mentioned that she was considering selling one or more adult dogs for a variety of reasons, with one being that she didn't feel she was going to be able to work and title all of the dogs she presently has, and that this wasn't in the best interest of any of the dogs. That's an awful thing to admit?...why??  If one of the reasons Ms. Clark sold said dog to Granville was that Granville indicated she was going to work and title the dog, and circumstances changed so that Granville couldn't do that, wouldn't it be better if she could find him a good home with a handler who could work and title him?

I do agree with Jenni that none of this shitstorm would have arisen if Granville had given Ms. Clark a 'head's up', but she wasn't obligated to do so, and probably never thought a simple inquiry on how to appraise a dog's monetary worth was going to cause such a ruckus. 

I hope Granville and Ms. Clark can mend this fence, and I don't think there's any honor in slamming Granville's breeding program, either--yes, I'm looking at you, hunger. Cheap shot and a low blow.  So the bitch she bred got a 'carrier' result on DM testing--first off, the jury is still out as to whether or not this test is actually predictive for DM in THIS breed, and secondly, at least Granville TESTED her bitch...the majority of breeders in this country aren't using either of the available tests, so you have no way of knowing whether the sire or dam of their litters would be considered affected, let alone carrier, if those animals were tested.   You also carped about the bitch being OFA Fair.  Even OFA will tell you--Fair is still passing.  If you don't like to see anything less than OFA Good or an "A" stamp in breeding stock, that's your prerogitive, but there's PLENTY of Fair and NZ breeding stock that have produced sound dogs for generations. It's not a sin or unethical or a sign of 'lesser quality' breeding to breed an OFA Fair bitch or dog. Get over it.

Not a cheap shot....truth and why vom Gildaf will not sell pups with unlimited breeding rights any longer.  Also, she WAS and IS obligated under her contract and since you don't know Melinda you might not know that this issue has been ongoing and if you read her post, Melinda has been trying to contact her repeatedly.   I don't give a crap about what backyard breeders are doing to churn out marginal dogs or how many don't care about DM or will accept fair hips or breed without hips being certified at all.  There is a reason my dogs come from WUSV CH lines and one is pink papered.  In fact, frankly, I would not even have bought Melinda's pup if it were not for the DM clear parents.  Of course when I saw what she produced, live with what she produced and I compare it to dogs that come from BSP/WUSV CH lines from koerklassed parents, she rivals the best and she is doing more and more to maintain and exceed quality in her program. There is a legal obligation here, as well as a moral one.  Maybe if she returned Melinda's calls this issue would be resolved, but she has not and it is not.

" which is approved by the breeder"   HOW are you going to make sure the home is approved when you won't even call her back?

I think it should be noted here that Granville's website shows that they own 2 males.  1 (Coultrane) that is under 2 years of age and has not yet passed all of its health certifications - but is a DM carrier. The second dog is over 2 years old (Berlin) and shows many health certifications.  I don't think anyone went "fast forward" too quickly.... 


Whether she was "considering selling", "is selling", "might sell" I still think it would have been wise to start with a notification to the breeder, it would have avoided all this mess.

I hope it all works out and I am sure the minute things are patched up, one of them will fill us all in.  Berlin looks like a nice dog.