agression or bad behaviour - Page 2

Steve, your pompous attitude is full of plain hot air!  This Thread is far from silly from Julie's perspective.

If you think that "voice tone" alone is all that is necessary to achieve a respectfully obedient dog, then you are not out there meeting Owners with problems and issues, irrespective of their tone of voice!

Did you actually say; "forcing a 10-week puppy to lay down"???  Firstly, 'force' is barely the description, in fact after being placed into a DOWN, you actually prevent the puppy from getting up - that is the point of the exercise, not learning the down, but learning that the down means remain laying down, and learn to relax and be comfortable, until allowed freedom of movement.  Are you going to wait until a GSD is adult before suggesting that this is required from you???  (I would go into the finer details and reasons for the purpose of this, but feel it will be wasted).

It would not surprise me if you used a baby gate or closed a door in order to keep a dog from entering a room.  In just the same way as the suggestion of wearing shoes go around the problem rather than address it, so a baby gate stops a dog from entering rather than an Owner.

Your last paragraph hardly makes sense either - that "Owners need training NOT the dogs"!  Yes, the Owners need teaching in how to train dogs, because Steve, dogs do not come with an electronic chip in how they are expected to behave formally and generally!


Vixen

Steve, I could not agree more with this part of your last post...

"Most Dog training is done by the tone of your commands talk to a dog in a mincy soft voice you will lose out the dog will run you, talk to the dog in a voice and tone which commands respect and it does not mean shouting at the dog and with it your body posture then the Dog will know is place and that applies to all dogs they do know there place but it is the handlers in most part that need training not the dogs"..

Very well said.

I'm with Steve1 - this is a 10 week old puppy......we started out about biting - now we are talking about making a 10 week old puppy do a long down for 15-30 minutes a day?......Who in the crap would ask a human baby to stay down for that long period of time?   What do you do just hold them down on the ground?     A puppy shouldnt be ask to do that at 10 weeks....that time frame is stupid.    That is a bunch of crap and you end of with a shit dog and a owner that is frustrated -  and a dog that ends up in the pound ...........

You set your pup up for success and don't ask them to do things they aren't capable of at that age.. and you build..........you are fool Vixen - Steve1 - YOUR ON THE MARK!...........  Training a dog isn't rocket science - it can be very rewarding if you know the dogs limitations and age......... 

YogieBear

Steve for some of your points I agree with you but personally, I never raise my voice to my dog unless he/she is at a distance or in the heat of bite work.  I speak to the animal that can hear a fly buzzing at 50+ feet but make my actions speak loudly similar to an oft used Teddy Roosevelt quote "speak softly and carry a big stick", not literally but figuratively.  I always get a kick out of watching people shout and yell at their dogs and never really enforce anything and the dog just tunes them out.  Ahh WTH, just read a book on dog behavior and say OUCH and leave the room, then say "leave it" and hit yourself in the head with the book (I believe the Pythons would suggest The Monks of New Skete).  Or, if you are really serious about training the puppy, amputate both of your feet, that will eliminate the problem altogether and save on future shoe purchases.

I take dogs very seriously.  Their behaviour and human interaction.  Take a look at my Web Site. 

Reading your Post YogiBear says more than you probably realise about your understanding of dog training, ability and behaviour.  I have absolutely no need to defend myself to your ideas, which as presented in your Post are sadly lacking of knowledge and sense.


Vixen

 I have to say I agree with Steve.  If you don't think the tone of your voice gives any creedence to your commands and the response they illicit from your dogs your nuts.  These guys bite at this age it, you can wear shoes and pants or perfect what we call puppy dance. But do not let this guy determine at 10 weeks that he is alpha, your life will be hell as will his.  Find a local trainer with a puppy class and enroll, call the breeder if you have questions.  You do have one very good thing going for you, you had a question and you started looking for the answer!! You may want to do research on the WL gsd's Steve is right it might not be the dog for you and that's not a problem but better to find out now instead of when you have a full grown boy with drive that is pretty sure anything you say is just a suggetion. 

Vixen your says it all as well.  You train in domiance..and a lack of knowledge of knowing what a puppy is capable of - why would you ask them to stay down for that long?....I do not however train that way......  I am not having any problems with the dogs I am currently training.  I understand puppies bite -  I train for a happy dog.  A confident dog, a dog that wants to be with me - and a dog that knows that I am on his team and we work together..............  Your statement however states just the opposite.........  we are talking about biting are we not?   Overwelming a puppy with alot of stuff is just as bad as overwelming a new handler with a bunch of crap..........

Stick to the topic...

Vixen you simply do not have a clue how to handle dogs the way you put words in your posts holding down a 10 week old puppy for 10 to 15 minutes every day proves how little you know about dogs to even suggest that practice, and after 60 plus years of bringing up Puppies i do not need to look at your website or any other site i know what to do with out any problems
and to Dudering who mentioned raising my voice to a Dog that shows again how well they read posts i never said raise my voice i said it is the tone and the way you speak the words that the dog understands not soft mincy bloody words and it does not mean raising your voice at all it is YOUR PRESENCE and the voice commands that make a dog realize you are its boss I really wonder where some of you guys are coming from it is the simplest thing in the world to bring up a Puppy to be a good kind dog to people and what there is around it but until that dog respects you as its leader then forget it because you will face a lot of frustration along the way if you let any dog better you and No force of any kind is needed, Just YOU, your voice and the way you hold and present yourself to the dog in simple terms i am the BOSS not you
However this is a 10 week old Puppy only a baby you do not let it bite or mouth you and even the softest person should be able to do that if not as i said get another home for it where the dog can live a good life and be bought up to do it. now its time for Bed
Steve1

I thank you all for your information.  The pup will be 6 months old shortly.   I tried to exchange the pup with the breeder without success.  I have resorted to using a rolled up paper.  Advice from a police dog trainer was to give him an upward smack on the bottom side of his mouth.

For all of you I am a breeder and know a lot about dog pack behaviour, but, with my strong authoritive voice - this is what I was told - does not even move him.  I cannot use the lead in the backyard, as he grabs the lead and rolls on the grass of pulls me.  If I have to try to train him I have to go outside in the street.