New to GSD - Need some questions answered! - Page 2

Hi All,

Thank you for your responses.  Let me clarify some things.  My husband had GSDs when he was a child.  Our imported dogs were originally purchased to show and be family pets, not to breed.  The first dog we purchased in Germany is now back in the States.  We have had so many people ask to breed to her and ask if we were going to get more over here.  We have been told numerous times that the "show lines" in the US are in need of improvement.  I am not wanting to start a fight on here as to whether or not this is true, but from our experience in others seeing our imports, apparently there is a market.  We only want to show!  We do not wish to work or do schutz with them, however one of our females was beginning training in schutz before we bought her.  We do not plan on breeding our dogs until they have a show record.  (I know that from my experience in the horse industry!)  Now, I know about the requirements of the SV - I knew those BEFORE we purchased our dogs in Germany.  What I was asking is if the requirements are the same in the States for AKC and UKC, I probably should have been more specific with my questions instead of generalizing.  After I posted the first message I found the website for USA immediately after.  From what I am assuming, most of you on here are not showers, you have working dogs.  I think that is where the discrepancy in our understanding lies.  I am just interested in what AKC and UKC requires and if those requirements differ from what the SV requires.  I could have called AKC and UKC instead of asking on this page, but I would have rather had an insiders answer.

Danke,
Jessica

Please God no. Not another show person. There is a thread right now showing the embarrassment that is the show dog. These dogs were created to work, not step around a ring. However, there are many breeds that you could show instead. Like Poodles. Very smart dogs, lots of hair to braid and cut and barbie doll around. : P Just go read the thread. It is called fun with show toons.

Haha Jeff!  I saw that thread! :-)  To each his own!  I've got my dogs and you've got yours.  But, you are putting GSDs in a box.  You are saying they are only good as working dogs.  Are you seriously comparing the German Shepherd to a Poodle?  If you actually looked for "betterment of the breed", then you would see that to prove the worth of the GSD, which so far has stood the test of time, is to create a very versatile, all-around breed.  By labeling them as "working" dogs only, you are limiting what they can do.  I would rather see people with "quality" German Shepherds in the showring than what is in the arena now.  The only way to do that is by encouraging those with "quality" dogs to enter the showring and exhibiting, and eventually breeding, for that true German quality. 

I think that this is probably a loosing battle conversation with you, Jeff.  :-p  However, like I said above, to each his own.

highsteppin....to quote you"you are saying they are only good as working dogs."...jeff might be a smart dude...but i think that phrase was somewhat coined by the originator of the breed(CAPT MAX)...as to your comments on a "viable market"for the "type of dog you prefer"...you're right..people are asking for a milder,pet type,fluffy puppy to cuddle on the sofa with and do palor tricks for popcorn...in particular "blk/red color"(thou most have never even seen rich blk/red,except for some photo shopped ad in dog fancy magazine) working dog...show dog?what work? what show? to me AKC SHOWS  cater to the owners in fancy folding chairs drinking ice tea,while their paid "pro" handler prances around the ring with a big spooky hock walker,or their freaky bitches with ant eater muzzles,collecting ribbons..not a friendly place for a correctly bred GERMAN CONFORMATION DOG... contrast that show to a german conformation show and the difference is like night and day...i doubt the  traditional american AKC type would do well at the german style...it's a much more rigorous exibition,thou to me ,not a real test for even a marginal working line dog....i'd "rather see people with quality also"...just don't forget the originators intent!!!!! white labs, white goldens and great danes already take up too much sofa space as it is.....don't let the GSD have to fight for his spot on the sofa......now,of course i'm being cynical,and(highsteppin) i'm sure you're a fairly nice person...but your goals and ideas take a lot of us back to our original imprinting og the GSD in america...we learned better,we saw a difference,and we set out to seek suitable dogs for work and show...i wouldn't waste gas money going to an AKC show,yet i enjoy the german type conformation events...but to me the formula would be...train,trial,show, breed....best of luck....

The link below might be a good place to get an idea of what you are getting into. The GSD is a working dog, that was the founder of the breed's goal and he worked hard to establish an organization (the SV) in which to continue "his" breed. There are basically 4 types of GSD (I'm totally simplifying here), the working line dogs, the German conformation dogs, the American conformation dogs, and the pets(created by breeders with no specific knowledge or goal for the breed).
When you say that you don't want to train or trial in Schutzhund, you have pretty much eliminated the working line and German show line venues since you have to title your dogs in Schutzhund for both those venues. You can still sell pups and claim you are firmly in one of those camps, but you're not really breeding for the betterment of anything. You don't HAVE to title working line dogs, but in order to show German style conformation you have to have SchH titles to compete beyond the youth class. There are people who breed and sell working line dogs without ever titling anything, but to be considered a breeder who is striving for the goals that Capt von Stephanitz laid out, then breeding only titled and koerklassed dogs would be considered top notch. 
So, since you don't want to do anything but show, that leaves AKC showing and jumping into the American showline camp. Very difficult to win in the  American AKC show ring with a German conformation dog, plus,very rarely do the American showline people feel you would be improving their lines with your WGSL (West German Show Line) dogs since they like the style they have created. Sometimes you will see a breeder throw in a WGSL dog into an American line, but not the norm. 
Here is a link to an outline giving you some more solid descriptions of the different types. This is honestly just scratching the surface of the outside of the tip of the iceberg :).
Annette


http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html

Quote:  Are you seriously comparing the German Shepherd to a Poodle?

No, but I have trained several standards in PP and they were more than adequate. They are also very very smart dogs, who have been bred for show for years and years and they have NOT made a distinct split in the breed. LOL 

I would say that there is a box for the GSD and it is a working box. When you know more about the breed, you will start to see how hard it is to keep them in that box as it is. 

Quote: I would rather see people with "quality" German Shepherds in the showring than what is in the arena now.

Pipe dream. You have already stated that you have no interest with training or trialing, or work in general. Once you realize that most of what you do in the show ring is chase the popular look of that year, you will see there is only breeding for the next "look".

Quote:  I think that this is probably a loosing battle conversation with you, Jeff.  :-p  However, like I said above, to each his own.

Well, that is what happens when one person is correct, and the other person is incorrect. The incorrect person loses the "battle". : P

Good luck Highsteppin to what ever avenues you decide. But you seem to straddle the fence. And I mean you ask for advise as a beginner and I commend you for that. But you enter debates that take a fair amount of knowledge. It is like owning a bar-b-que pit and stating new to bar-b-que but already planning on opening a restaurant and have you menu prepared and arguing over best styles. Dont put yourself in a box. Opionions change as information does. Jeff seems like a jerk but gain knowledge before debating him. It is amusing ,he will bait you but he is talking knowledge. Never read a thread were he didnt may have been mean, rude, honest what ever you want to call it. You might be right about stock of GSD's in the show ring. You as a beginner probaly are not in the position to start to better the breed.
Reggie.  p.s. the website looks top notch.