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by Abby Normal on 21 May 2011 - 17:05
It would certainly seem so. When you see the health initiatives that other breed clubs are instigating you just have to wonder why the GSD is lagging so far behind. Then again it doesn't appear that very many in the breed are much concerned with new health developments either, otherwise would they not be challenging the BC about health?
Any ideas on a solution? Can members lobby the council for a meeting/symposium on health to get things moving?
Any ideas on a solution? Can members lobby the council for a meeting/symposium on health to get things moving?
by Videx on 21 May 2011 - 21:05
It may be a case of being on the GSD Breed Council to limit or indeed stop the introduction of new DNA Tests that are becoming increasingly available. Cost is often cited along with comments like "it is not a major problem in our breed" commonly known as the "ostrich syndrome" - something that is currently rife within the GSD breed.
As for solutions, the first step is to scrap the GSD Breed Council (because it has lost any credability it may have had - and note: BAGSD has never been a member of the GSD BC) and establish a GSD National Forum with specialised sub-committees for major issues, one being "identify DNA Tests for diseases which exist within the GSD breed and formulate appropriate National 'GSD DNA Testing Schemes' for each one", using the facilities of the Kennel Club or/and the SV wherever possible.
The DM DNA Test available in the UK (which I posted above) is easily set up for any affected breed, with the full co-operation of the Kennel Club. The Kennel Club will also make the results available online for GSD breeders looking for a DM Clear Stud Dog and for the Public who are looking for a puppy from DM Clear parents.
As for solutions, the first step is to scrap the GSD Breed Council (because it has lost any credability it may have had - and note: BAGSD has never been a member of the GSD BC) and establish a GSD National Forum with specialised sub-committees for major issues, one being "identify DNA Tests for diseases which exist within the GSD breed and formulate appropriate National 'GSD DNA Testing Schemes' for each one", using the facilities of the Kennel Club or/and the SV wherever possible.
The DM DNA Test available in the UK (which I posted above) is easily set up for any affected breed, with the full co-operation of the Kennel Club. The Kennel Club will also make the results available online for GSD breeders looking for a DM Clear Stud Dog and for the Public who are looking for a puppy from DM Clear parents.
by Abby Normal on 21 May 2011 - 22:05
I think I have seen evidence of what you refer to in your first paragraph actually happening. I do feel that some people do set out to deliberately block progress. Citing cost is something which always deeply grieves me, and which I personally find abhorrent.
Politics and personal agendas are something that, sadly, affect all committees whatever sphere they may be in.
I really do like the sound of a GSD National Forum, could this be something that the GSD League could or would take up? In these technological times with things like Skype, it doesn't even mean people travelling all over Gods creation, many meetings can take place in 'cyberspace'. It could even be done in a forum setting, so that members could take part and have their voices heard. There are so many possibilities.
It's deeply disappointing though that just we two seem to be interested in it. Whatever happened to the 'brave new world' everyone spoke of?
Politics and personal agendas are something that, sadly, affect all committees whatever sphere they may be in.
I really do like the sound of a GSD National Forum, could this be something that the GSD League could or would take up? In these technological times with things like Skype, it doesn't even mean people travelling all over Gods creation, many meetings can take place in 'cyberspace'. It could even be done in a forum setting, so that members could take part and have their voices heard. There are so many possibilities.
It's deeply disappointing though that just we two seem to be interested in it. Whatever happened to the 'brave new world' everyone spoke of?
by Videx on 22 May 2011 - 11:05
Something's are inevitable and unavoidable, as many come to realise. Progress, especially on health issues will NOT be 'blocked'.
The GSDL has great potential, especially through their GSDL/WUSV System, however they have NOT introduced the 'British Champion Cerificates' and a 'National Programme of Events' based on geographic considerations. Two fundamental requirements for continuing success and progress of the GSDL/WUSV System.
I firmly believe the omission of these two fundamentals has rendered the regional events unpopular and made them little more attractive than KC Open Shows. I have been accused of being impatient, now we will witness the reality and consequences of their failure to put these fundamentals in place. Look out for the ENTRY in the forthcoming GSDL/WUSV Regional Event.
The GSDL could introduce so many improvements for our breed if there was the will and the foresight. I am now convinced the Council get carried away with initial euphoria and success and forget a number of fundamentals that need to be added and the progress that needs to be maintained.
With the GSDL/WUSV System having the Breed Survey as a fundamental inclusion, this offered huge opportunities for them to develop the Breed Survey primarily on Health Issues. If the Breed Council blocked such development it would be very logical for the GSDL to establish their very own Breed Survey along with GSDL Breed Surveyors. The groundwork has already been done for this.
It is still NOT too late, although I fear time is running out for the GSDL to introduce these changes and revive the GSDL/WUSV System and ALL its exciting potential benefits for our GSD breed here within the UK.
2012 is the year to have all these fundamentals in place, along with an announcement about their introduction, VERY SOON.
The GSDL has great potential, especially through their GSDL/WUSV System, however they have NOT introduced the 'British Champion Cerificates' and a 'National Programme of Events' based on geographic considerations. Two fundamental requirements for continuing success and progress of the GSDL/WUSV System.
I firmly believe the omission of these two fundamentals has rendered the regional events unpopular and made them little more attractive than KC Open Shows. I have been accused of being impatient, now we will witness the reality and consequences of their failure to put these fundamentals in place. Look out for the ENTRY in the forthcoming GSDL/WUSV Regional Event.
The GSDL could introduce so many improvements for our breed if there was the will and the foresight. I am now convinced the Council get carried away with initial euphoria and success and forget a number of fundamentals that need to be added and the progress that needs to be maintained.
With the GSDL/WUSV System having the Breed Survey as a fundamental inclusion, this offered huge opportunities for them to develop the Breed Survey primarily on Health Issues. If the Breed Council blocked such development it would be very logical for the GSDL to establish their very own Breed Survey along with GSDL Breed Surveyors. The groundwork has already been done for this.
It is still NOT too late, although I fear time is running out for the GSDL to introduce these changes and revive the GSDL/WUSV System and ALL its exciting potential benefits for our GSD breed here within the UK.
2012 is the year to have all these fundamentals in place, along with an announcement about their introduction, VERY SOON.
by dazzler on 22 May 2011 - 12:05
I will probably get criticised for this, and I will hold my hands up and take it. I have lost quite a few of my GSDs over the years to DM, it is a heartbreaking condition. When I got my latest bitch I wasn't aware of the tests, but I am now. I have thought often about having her tested but I haven't purely because I am a coward. I do not want to be told that I am going to lose my 2 year old bitch some time in the future to this horrible condition, totally ostrich like I know and I may yet change my mind in the future, but that is why at the moment she is untested. The £75 cost wouldn't worry me.
by Videx on 22 May 2011 - 12:05
dazzler: your thoughts and fears are fully understandable. It is the GSD Breeders that need to address this issue some time very soon. A DM DNA Testing Scheme needs to be set up with the Kennel Club by the GSD Breed Council, if they don't then the GSD League should set one up. IT IS VERY EASY TO SET THIS UP.
Then great efforts should be made to ENCOURAGE breeders and GSD owners to participate in the DM Scheme. ALL results WILL be published on the Kennel Club website.
The GSD Breed Survey should then ADD the DM DNA Test as a "Voluntary Test" for a period of time, say 2 years, then it should become a REQUIREMENT.
On a point of information, I have already ordered my first four testing kits.
Then great efforts should be made to ENCOURAGE breeders and GSD owners to participate in the DM Scheme. ALL results WILL be published on the Kennel Club website.
The GSD Breed Survey should then ADD the DM DNA Test as a "Voluntary Test" for a period of time, say 2 years, then it should become a REQUIREMENT.
On a point of information, I have already ordered my first four testing kits.
by noddi on 22 May 2011 - 12:05
to David and AbbyNormal....Great to see yu two in unison for once instead of at each others throats.Joking aside folks i totally agree with yu both.i too would like to ask both the GSDL n GSD B/C ...WHY THESE TESTS ARE NOT PUBLICIZED IN EITHER THE B/C MONTHLY MAG.NOR THE LEAGUES MAGS?I have only found out about the tests for Pituary dwarfism n DM,here on this forum.i do know that a friend of mine didnt know re the test for PD.Its going to be quite a strain on me financially with all these tests becoming available BUT I WILL BE TESTING on my new female puppy when i,m able to purchase her.I have had a male who had this condition,albeit it manifested slowly n wasnt the cause of him being PTS but it would have been if his liver hadnt been packing in and now i suspect my Lily is suffering from this condition,albeit she,s now nearly 11.I personally would like both the B/C n GSDL to be keeping up with all the new tests being discovered n where one can go to get these tests done.Thank yu David n Abby for this info.much appreciated.Carole S.(Rheinmeister gsds)
by kesyra on 22 May 2011 - 15:05
I think there are a handful of breeders testing for DM in the UK, but many will not come on this database, as it often becomes little more than a slanging match with nastiness and bickering. They therefore will not know about this discussion.
I understand that would be very simple for the League's health advisor to contact the Breed Health Department at the KC and request that the information is recorded. A lab can be designated (such as Laboklin) and once this arrangement has been set up, owners have to sign a declaration at the time of testing, which gives permission for the lab to forward the results automatically to the Kennel Club. Owners of dogs which have already been tested at the approved lab can then forward their results to the KC for inclusion on the list.
I have been using Laboklin for this test, amongst others and have found them to be very helpful and efficient.
Katrina (Kesyra GSD's)
I understand that would be very simple for the League's health advisor to contact the Breed Health Department at the KC and request that the information is recorded. A lab can be designated (such as Laboklin) and once this arrangement has been set up, owners have to sign a declaration at the time of testing, which gives permission for the lab to forward the results automatically to the Kennel Club. Owners of dogs which have already been tested at the approved lab can then forward their results to the KC for inclusion on the list.
I have been using Laboklin for this test, amongst others and have found them to be very helpful and efficient.
Katrina (Kesyra GSD's)
by Liebe on 22 May 2011 - 15:05
I am pro testing, however I hope people are aware of the fact that even a dog who is tested clear can go on to develop symptoms of DM and that a dog who is tested affected may not develop symptoms. Please re - read the information from Laboklin when it states "unlikely to develop". So whilst it is a good and helpful test, it is not as black and white as other tests such as the dwarfism and haemophilia.
Also imagine being an owner of a dog tested as an "affected" you could spend your life waiting for the ax to drop and it never doing so. This test needs to be used with a full awareness of the meaning of the results
Also imagine being an owner of a dog tested as an "affected" you could spend your life waiting for the ax to drop and it never doing so. This test needs to be used with a full awareness of the meaning of the results
by Abby Normal on 22 May 2011 - 18:05
Liebe, you are right, and the information posted here by Videx is very clear about this test. I myself wanted to find out much more information about it before I raised the issue. As DM is a late onset disease, it will be many years before they can confirm whether a clear dog ever goes on to develop the disease. In the meantime it is the best and only available tool to reduce the incidence of this condition.
I understand perfectly why Dazzler does not want her dog tested, I won't have mine tested either, since they are not breeding dogs. That is an axe I would not want over my head. In this case ignorance is bliss. The only people who need to consider testing are breeders.
Carole - Yes Videx and I are unlikely bedfellows it's true, but I am so glad to see that he is going to test and has joined in this thread, and that there are in fact a few who have started to. I wish to thank them and Videx for leading the field. Thank you too for joining the conversation, your views are always appreciated. I am sorry to hear your Lily may have this condition, I hope that turns out not to be the case.
Katrina, I know that there is this perception by breeders, which is why it is even more important for our designated organisations to discuss and disseminate such information and offer the appropriate encouragement and guidance.
Carole's comment that she only found out about the PD test and the DM test on this forum just shows how little leadership in terms of health for our breed is being offered by any organisation at the moment.
I understand perfectly why Dazzler does not want her dog tested, I won't have mine tested either, since they are not breeding dogs. That is an axe I would not want over my head. In this case ignorance is bliss. The only people who need to consider testing are breeders.
Carole - Yes Videx and I are unlikely bedfellows it's true, but I am so glad to see that he is going to test and has joined in this thread, and that there are in fact a few who have started to. I wish to thank them and Videx for leading the field. Thank you too for joining the conversation, your views are always appreciated. I am sorry to hear your Lily may have this condition, I hope that turns out not to be the case.
Katrina, I know that there is this perception by breeders, which is why it is even more important for our designated organisations to discuss and disseminate such information and offer the appropriate encouragement and guidance.
Carole's comment that she only found out about the PD test and the DM test on this forum just shows how little leadership in terms of health for our breed is being offered by any organisation at the moment.
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